Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16729582)

We really going back to the 'some sacks don't really count' thing?

They only count against the elite teams? Coverage sacks don't count? All of that stuff?

Dude is a 21 year old rookie who put up 6 sacks, a bunch of batted balls, and a pretty good pressure rate.

He's been getting a sack a game on average for the last third to half of the season almost.

And his ceiling is 8-10 sacks?

I've got news for you-it's the NFL, and stats are stats no matter who you play. And if you don't think elite pass rushers put up a lot of their stats against inferior opponents, you're nuts.

George is turning out to be a really good pick. As good as Hutchinson? Well, Hutchinson was a very polished prospect, and George was much more raw.

Physically? Well, the RAS is a lot closer than people think. The big knock on George was 'short arms' and they're longer than Hutchinson's. They're a similar 'type' if you will.

He's big, freakishly strong hardworking kid who's hard on himself. That can translate to greatness with just a little luck.

Originally Posted by ThyKingdomCome15 (Post 16729511)

Hutchinson had a game this year where he registered three sacks and finished the year with 9.5. George has had 6 sacks in his last seven games. So if you're looking for the hotter player right now, it's George.

But no, I never though George was on the same level as Hutchinson. He was great value however.

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 16729513)

There's probably a lot of truth to this. If we're absolutely honest, Karlaftis is not physically special in any particular way. He's pretty fast, but not especially so. He's not very 'bendy,' or flexible, and he's not the most instinctive player in the world.

He has a really good motor, and a full offseason with the training staff, a proper conditioning program, etc., he could have a better motor. Maybe a great one. With a specialist training him, he could shave a tenth off his :40 time, which means more acceleration, and even more top speed, which kind of who cares, but to reach that goal he'd also have to get more limber, or bendy. Now, he's never going to be a yoga instructor, but he could significantly improve his flexibility, which could have several benefits.

And he's going to benefit from the coaching staff, in particular coach Cullen, who could greatly accelerate his learning curve, and make him one of the smartest young DEs in the league. That counts for a lot in Spags defense, when you're asked to not only do the traditional things DEs are asked to do in the NFL, but also cover, play all the positions on the DL, maybe even LB, as well. He's going to know a ton about the nuts and bolts of defense in a couple years. This time with Cullen could be formative for Karlaftis. And George has the fundamental building blocks to do what Cullen and Spags are going to be asking of him. He has good recognition skills and good instincts. He takes good angles most of the time, regardless of situation.

And he's playing for the Chiefs, so he's going to have ample opportunities to work on those skills; he'll hardly ever be asked to just defend the run, game after game, right? He's going to be playing in a lot of games where the other team is going to be throwing a lot.

George could transform into one of the best young DEs in a year or two, if he can find a little more burst, flexibility, and get samurai-like about working on his craft.

So, he probably won't ever be elite. Actually, unless he does suddenly become a yoga master, being elite is off the table. Solid mid-tier, he could do that. 8+ sacks a season, maybe peak out at 10+ a couple times?

I think we'd all like that.

Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 16729667)

I don’t know. Not knocking GK, but Hutchinson was a force last week against GB in a way that GK has not done yet. You can like a player such as GK and see the potential while realizing that he isn’t AH and may never be. Many people outside CP loved the GK pick for KC and thought he was a great value pick. He is playing quite well for where he was drafted and has in most people’s estimation exceeded first year expectations.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16729582)

We really going back to the 'some sacks don't really count' thing?

They only count against the elite teams? Coverage sacks don't count? All of that stuff?

Dude is a 21 year old rookie who put up 6 sacks, a bunch of batted balls, and a pretty good pressure rate.

He's been getting a sack a game on average for the last third to half of the season almost.

And his ceiling is 8-10 sacks?

I've got news for you-it's the NFL, and stats are stats no matter who you play. And if you don't think elite pass rushers put up a lot of their stats against inferior opponents, you're nuts.

George is turning out to be a really good pick. As good as Hutchinson? Well, Hutchinson was a very polished prospect, and George was much more raw.

Physically? Well, the RAS is a lot closer than people think. The big knock on George was 'short arms' and they're longer than Hutchinson's. They're a similar 'type' if you will.

He's big, freakishly strong hardworking kid who's hard on himself. That can translate to greatness with just a little luck.

Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 16729784)

What's his pressure rate, genuine question.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16729702)

This is true, but Hutch started out further ahead. He's also a year older, and three inches taller, though his arms are actually slightly shorter.

It's no surprise that Hutchinson became a force; I'm just saying we haven't reached anywhere near Karlaftis' ceiling.

Hali is a reachable ceiling. Might be higher. The floor is what he is right now, which is still pretty good-let's call it an above average DE.
But again, the kid is 21 freaking years old.

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 16729857)

First thing i look for when watching a rookie DL is if they're strong at the point of attack. If they're getting blown off the LoS, that's a real bad sign. It means you shouldn't be playing because assignments and gaps are getting ****ed by your inability to do your job.

So if you can hold your gap and not get your shit pushed in, we're already off to a real positive trajectory. At the very least, we can play you on run downs, early downs etc.

Karlaftis is a ****ing man out there. I never notice him getting blown off the LoS. He either holds it or pushes it in.

That's all i really wanna see. You can win with that. The sacks and numbers etc will come in time. Which they have. And will continue to do so.

He's not some freakish, long DE ala Javon Kearse. He's not some speed rusher who can chase down mobile QB's from behind. And that's ok. Get over that. He's already a solid player that you can depend on. To ME, that already moves him out of potential bust territory.

I don't know how you could watch his rookie season and be down on this guy. He's only going to get better, stronger etc and he's ALREADY a competent, good starter who can give you at least 7-10 sacks a season. My dudes...that is a winning, positive player.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16729861)

Guy could never improve an inch from where he is now and not be a 'bust'.

He wasn't a top 5 pick here. He's established baseline competence. Yeah, even as a worst case scenario, that's an acceptable (if not ideal) return on a 1st round pick. Bust is well off the table.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16729858)

The only 'worry' I have, if you can even call it that, is that I think GK is mostly maxed physically. And I don't mean that to say he can't get stronger, but I mean it to say that he's not the sort of unicorn that can get stronger AND faster. Or even stronger while staying the same speed.

Let's say he has 100 attribute points - I don't think he can take that up to 120. I think he's capped at 100 and he can put 60 into speed and 40 into power. Or 50/50 or 40/60.

Any additional power will come at the expense of agility/bend. Any additional bend will come at the expense of power.

I think he can change HOW he's built but I don't think he's substantially improve his 'overall' physical ability. Did I make that clear as mud?

For me I think he can afford to spend an off-season focusing on his agility. It may mean a little less functional strength, but I think that's a trade worth making because I haven't seen a guy who's getting rocked out there. Moreover, technique/tenacity can do quite a bit to cover for a little bit of reduced strength.

But man, if he could get just a liiiiiitle quicker or more fluid, he could be a real force. At that point you'd be looking at a potential Maxx Crosby sort of player.