Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17344694)

Oh I don't think anyone looks for a lesser player - especially if you're drafting one in the first round.

But I'm going to assume you're making a different argument - notably that you'd rather not trade ceiling for floor. You don't want to pass on a potential #1 for a more sure thing who will be a viable #2.

But...isn't that kinda what we both were eager to do with Emeka Egbuka? I don't think either of us saw him as a potential superstar yet he seemed like such a sure thing as a strong NFL contributor that we'd have been more than happy to take him even if he's less likely than say Legette or Walker to be a 1.

(And if that's NOT what you were trying to say, I have no idea what it may be - are you saying don't look for a complement to Rice but rather just the best collection of skills you can find even if some of those are redundant when paired with Rice?)

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17344699)

I'd trade some of it for Egbuka but I also think his upside is higher than you do. I love that dude with his route running and such here. But for the most part, I think you start looking for that guy in the 3rd round.

In the first, I'm just pretty much out on a WR or the ones that are gonna be there when I can take an upside swing on Legette in round 2 (theoretically).

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17344704)

Someobody is going to fall in love with Legette's measurables and his productivity this season. Lack of production prior be damned - that combination is going to turn at least one head.

If you want Legette, you're taking him in the 1st (IMO). If you're looking for a 2nd round guy I think you're maybe looking at Polk if you're lucky.

Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 17344125)

In all seriousness, can you imagine how absolutely ****ing stupid it is to basically say, “If you ignore how good Rice is and ignore the fact that Veach won a SB largely with this level of WR talent last year, he’s been an absolute failure.”?

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 17344729)

Veach was trying to find WRs on the Free Asian market? That might be the problem right there.

Originally Posted by gordonelloyd (Post 17344726)

I didn’t say Veach has been an absolute failure. I said he has not done a good enough job in the wide receiver room after the hill trade. Maybe terrible was too strong a word, as after all he did get Rice. But clearly what he has done in the draft and the free Asian market has not been enough to give Mahomes the receivers he needs. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn’t watched any games this year.

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 17344774)

What the Chiefs did in the WR room in 2022 absolutely was "enough" to give Mahomes what he needed. The Chiefs were an efficient, balanced, and explosive offense that led the NFL in most advanced and standard passing categories. It was enough for Mahomes to be the league MVP, again.

What they did in 2023 was not enough, as of current date. That required a lot of factors to fail:

Valdes-Scantling regressing badly
+
Toney and Moore both failing to take a step forward
+
Veteran Toney/Moore insurance policy Richie James getting hurt early

If even one of those things is different, it probably looks a lot more like 2022.

Either way, saying they have failed at this since the Hill trade, period, is not accurate.

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 17344774)

What the Chiefs did in the WR room in 2022 absolutely was "enough" to give Mahomes what he needed. The Chiefs were an efficient, balanced, and explosive offense that led the NFL in most advanced and standard passing categories. It was enough for Mahomes to be the league MVP, again.

What they did in 2023 was not enough, as of current date. That required a lot of factors to fail:

Valdes-Scantling regressing badly
+
Toney and Moore both failing to take a step forward
+
Veteran Toney/Moore insurance policy Richie James getting hurt early

If even one of those things is different, it probably looks a lot more like 2022.

Either way, saying they have failed at this since the Hill trade, period, is not accurate.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17344780)

Nick Wright made a good point -- The Bills offense was 9th in the league and is seen as an asset to their playoff run.

The Chiefs offense was 9th in the league and is seen as a cluster**** built by reeruned monkeys.

Perspective is a funny thing. And a BUNCH of people - seemingly a large chunk of the fanbase - is sorely lacking in it.

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 17344828)

It is wild, indeed.

The big separator between the two offenses is that Buffalo had a better red zone efficiency, because Josh Allen's running ability is a weapon in the red zone, and they are willing to use him as a runner all season.

The Chiefs really don't actively use Mahomes as a red zone weapon during the regular season, except in the rare must-have spot (and those are usually scramble situations).

The Chiefs were actually better at moving the ball and sustaining drives.