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-   -   Chiefs The fate of Chris Jones 2023 edition (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=349477)

DJ's left nut 08-23-2023 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 17069579)
Yea I don't disagree but do you believe he is the outlier? Very few DT's continue to be productive into their 30s.
He's a bit of a hybrid.

I don't use this name lightly - but there's been one guy in recent memory who can do the inside/outside thing like Jones can do. He aged very well. It was Reggie White.

And Jones is a VERY similar sort of specimen. He's a tall, powerful inside presence who can dominate from the inside despite that height. He can move outside and be dominant because of his first step. He's an excellent hand-fighter and knows how to use his angles.

He is as good a bet to age well as anyone is, IMO.

But I'm still not going to have him re-set the market.

I just don't want to fall into the trap of diminishing who he is as a player or what he's done for the franchise because money is getting in the way.

DJ's left nut 08-23-2023 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balto (Post 17069580)
Looking at our roster, if Veach needs to get a DT to fill in for Jones he could always trade for one.

Players that could be trade options:
MVS: Open up $7M
Sneed: Open up $2.743M
Danna: Open up $2.743M if traded or cut
CEH: Open up $2.085M
Wanogho: Open up $1.465M if traded and $1.115M if cut

These are the only realistic options and even then I'd take out Sneed and Danna because why weaken the D even more. So say Veach/Reid have been playing CEH with the thought of upping his value in a trade before the season starts that would open up another $2M and could go sign Dunlap or whatever.

I'll get butchered for this buuuuut MVS could be the play here. You open up $7M by trading him and maybe a team is dying for a deep threat like him. Maybe said team has a DT they'd part with to get MVS. Reid can have Richie, Toney or whoever take those snaps and be just fine. Just matters what team has a need and a DT they will part with that doesn't go over MVS's $7M cap hit?
So you're pretty much always this guy, eh?

This is all very stupid.

Balto 08-23-2023 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17069589)
He's a bit of a hybrid.

I don't use this name lightly - but there's been one guy in recent memory who can do the inside/outside thing like Jones can do. He aged very well. It was Reggie White.

And Jones is a VERY similar sort of specimen. He's a tall, powerful inside presence who can dominate from the inside despite that height. He can move outside and be dominant because of his first step. He's an excellent hand-fighter and knows how to use his angles.

He is as good a bet to age well as anyone is, IMO.

But I'm still not going to have him re-set the market.

I just don't want to fall into the trap of diminishing who he is as a player or what he's done for the franchise because money is getting in the way.
Not a horrible comparison but go back and watch some interviews of Jones. He takes about food a lot and also in one video I saw when he went back to school they showed the weight room and he talked about never being there and that it was not his thing.

Ya Ya I know its WAY different in the NFL but just has always stayed with me and while some could say Reggie White type, he could also be a Albert Hayneworth type going into his 3rd contract!

kcgreene 08-23-2023 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17069589)
He's a bit of a hybrid.

I don't use this name lightly - but there's been one guy in recent memory who can do the inside/outside thing like Jones can do. He aged very well. It was Reggie White.
I get what you're saying here, but The Minister of Defense was a generational type player that I feel you can't even compare CJ95 to.

Reggie White at age 29, already had 5 1st Team All Pros (Not mentioning the 2 years he played in the USFL where he was absolutely amazing as well, so less time for NFL achievements) CJ has one (last year)

I can't in good faith say that they'll age the same, regardless of similarities in playing style and such. I understand the argument you're making, but I have to strongly disagree.

When your talent level is that much higher, even your bad years will be good.

Balto 08-23-2023 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17069591)
So you're pretty much always this guy, eh?

This is all very stupid.
I mean sure most won't like the MVS trade BUT I'd think most would be ok if Veach traded CEH to open up cap to get D line help or cut Prince Tega Wanogho to get help the Dline. No?

Mecca 08-23-2023 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17069589)
He's a bit of a hybrid.

I don't use this name lightly - but there's been one guy in recent memory who can do the inside/outside thing like Jones can do. He aged very well. It was Reggie White.

And Jones is a VERY similar sort of specimen. He's a tall, powerful inside presence who can dominate from the inside despite that height. He can move outside and be dominant because of his first step. He's an excellent hand-fighter and knows how to use his angles.

He is as good a bet to age well as anyone is, IMO.

But I'm still not going to have him re-set the market.

I just don't want to fall into the trap of diminishing who he is as a player or what he's done for the franchise because money is getting in the way.
It's a tough call honestly, DT's staying elite after 29 is less than 10% so you are betting against the odds.

DJ's left nut 08-23-2023 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balto (Post 17069611)
I mean sure most won't like the MVS trade BUT I'd think most would be ok if Veach traded CEH to open up cap to get D line help or cut Prince Tega Wanogho to get help the Dline. No?
You realize that cutting Prince just puts someone ELSE in the top 51 and the impact on our salary cap is essentially a wash?

Besides, there's a really good chance that Prince doesn't make the team anyway. Looks like it's coming down to him or Niang as the backup swing OT. I don't see us keeping Morris, Niang and Prince when we appear set at LT and RT for the starters.

tredadda 08-23-2023 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 17069557)
And that list is:
Tyreek Hill

That's it. Unless you want to include OBJ who was in no position to ask what he was asking for.

But the truth is we don't know what Chris is demanding or what Veach has offered. Only "leaks" we've gotten is Chris's side saying they want to be the 2nd highest paid DT in the league and the Chiefs side saying they don't want to make him the highest paid DT.

What do you guys think Veach is offering AAV? Or guaranteed?
It would be interesting to see. The issue is Veach would want to lower the cap hit this year if possible and that means backloading it and throwing in guarantees when his talent most likely will not warrant his contract. Jones should be seeing that and trying to protect himself by getting as much guaranteed as possible or making cutting him harder in a few years.

Balto 08-23-2023 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17069618)
You realize that cutting Prince just puts someone ELSE in the top 51 and the impact on our salary cap is essentially a wash?

Besides, there's a really good chance that Prince doesn't make the team anyway. Looks like it's coming down to him or Niang as the backup swing OT. I don't see us keeping Morris, Niang and Prince when we appear set at LT and RT for the starters.
Sorry for Prince being cut I was thinking this would go down after the 29th(cut day). Thinking Veach would wait and see what Dline have been cut from other teams.

Regardless a trade now still works if contracts are about equal.

Megatron96 08-23-2023 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17069589)
He's a bit of a hybrid.

I don't use this name lightly - but there's been one guy in recent memory who can do the inside/outside thing like Jones can do. He aged very well. It was Reggie White.

And Jones is a VERY similar sort of specimen. He's a tall, powerful inside presence who can dominate from the inside despite that height. He can move outside and be dominant because of his first step. He's an excellent hand-fighter and knows how to use his angles.

He is as good a bet to age well as anyone is, IMO.

But I'm still not going to have him re-set the market.

I just don't want to fall into the trap of diminishing who he is as a player or what he's done for the franchise because money is getting in the way.


100%.

This flip to "CJ sucks because he won't sign the deal," is pretty idiotic. Not saying Veach should pony up #30 million/year, but shitting on Chris after all he's done is the epitome of fair-weather fan imo.

Balto 08-23-2023 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17069618)
You realize that cutting Prince just puts someone ELSE in the top 51 and the impact on our salary cap is essentially a wash?

Besides, there's a really good chance that Prince doesn't make the team anyway. Looks like it's coming down to him or Niang as the backup swing OT. I don't see us keeping Morris, Niang and Prince when we appear set at LT and RT for the starters.
It makes perfect sense if Veach plans to cut/trade Prince to get a little DL help if Jones really does sit out, which we probably won't know till AFTER cut day on the 29th.

Easy 6 08-23-2023 02:31 PM
Yeah I absolutely hate the way Jones is acting here, but I'm not gonna dog on what he's meant to this team

His entire time here was well worth it, even if only for the way he singlehandedly wrecked Cincy last year... he's basically the reason we won that game IMO

Balto 08-23-2023 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 17069630)
100%.

This flip to "CJ sucks because he won't sign the deal," is pretty idiotic. Not saying Veach should pony up #30 million/year, but shitting on Chris after all he's done is the epitome of fair-weather fan imo.
I don't think anyone has gone that far.

kcgreene 08-23-2023 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 17069630)
100%.

This flip to "CJ sucks because he won't sign the deal," is pretty idiotic. Not saying Veach should pony up #30 million/year, but shitting on Chris after all he's done is the epitome of fair-weather fan imo.
I don't think many are saying CJ sucks, I think that what a number of people (including myself) are saying is that right now, he's a player that is in the "Hall of Very Good" rather than the Hall of Fame.

He's not a player that at this point in time and in his career, that you sign to a deal as the 2nd highest paid Defensive Player in the NFL. And unfortunately, many of the comparisons I see tossed around on this thread discussing his impact, ability, or playstyle are to guys like Aaron Donald, Derrick Thomas (much earlier in this thread), and Reggie White.

These are all guys that were vastly more inherently talented than CJ95 in my opinion, making those comparisons a bit problematic.

I think that many of us are in agreement, just (in my case) when comparisons are placed to players who are vastly more talented, the comparison seems invalid.

Skyy God 08-23-2023 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 17069630)
100%.

This flip to "CJ sucks because he won't sign the deal," is pretty idiotic. Not saying Veach should pony up #30 million/year, but shitting on Chris after all he's done is the epitome of fair-weather fan imo.
He finally got a playoff sack.


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