Turnarounds in this league happen quickly, or they don't happen at all. Either Pioli will be one of the better GMs in the league, or he won't be. If he is, and hires a good coach, I see no reason why we won't compete for a playoff spot next year. All but a handful of bad teams are in the mix.

There's your reason. We're one of those.

This roster has a serious lack of talent.

If they don't get him, it doesn't necessarily make the window larger, it just makes it more likely that it opens later.

It doesn't have to be a rookie, however. That's not the only way to do it, although it's the way I would do it (about 2 years ago).

Jimmy Hoffa is buried under Giants stadium, before the internet, so you can't be him.
Mikey23456789 is convinced you are another GoChiefs alias, and your timing was kind of conspicuous.
But from your first day, you knew your way around pretty good. Just curious, don't let it bother you.

I don't think it has to be a rookie either, but a Matthew Stafford would be nice.

I'll admit it, I had to look it up.:banghead:

I have a feeling some of those players with think aren't very good will turn out to be pretty darn good if Pioli is all he's cracked up to be.

Mikey23456789 is also ****ing insane, so

Sanchez would be better.

I'm not convinced.

If Pioli hires a head coach who is all he is cracked up to be...maybe...

That's where the disagreement will lie. I think the problem is only at a few positions, and I believe most of it can be addressed in one offseason. I also think the Chiefs were a 7- or 8-win team coached to 2-win results, primarily on defense. Which is why Herm should be gone, although I'm still not convinced he is. Either way, I'm thinking (or maybe just hoping) people will see more than they expect out of several players in 2009, specifically because so much of the roster is so young. I see growing or developing talent where other people see a lack.

Find a starting MLB, find a weak-side pass rusher, and I think the defense goes up 20 spots, particularly if Gunther is out the door. There's talent at the skill positions on offense, and while they need to settle the starting QB question, I think the most important thing is to get back to as dominant an offensive line as they can, regardless of what kind of system they end up running in '09.

In the end, I just hope we see aggressive football. On both sides of the ball. I'm sick of zone defense (which we've gotten for a decade, basically) and I'm sick of run-first neanderthal ball.

You would also have to force him to let his coordinators do their jobs. I'm not defending Gunn but if he wasn't forced to run the cover who it may have been better this year.

A few handfuls, maybe.

Oh, there's so many directions to take that comment.

I agree. I believe that a few impact players at key positions will turn this Defense around big time. A pass rush, and a MLB will elevate everyone else on the field IMO.

I figure Ill get "ripped a new Ehole" by my opinion here but oh well, Alot of the national media agrees with my opinions so whos right?

First thing that happpened before Herm even took over was he lost his best olineman in Roaf.....his first game he lost his starting QB in Trent....his luck didnt get better through the last two years.

I just thought that the consensus before the year started was that the measuring stick for our team was improvement throughout the year and not wins and losses.

We played the 3rd toughest schedule in the NFL (post season opponents records) and only let four games get out of our grasp...

We lost 8 games by a TD or less with a team that is chalk full of the most rookies in NFL history. 10 games lost by 10 points or less.

Herm took the tough road to building a great team and has a good nucleus in place.

Give us Jared (the equivelant to the draft picks DV and CP traded away for retired vets during the DV era, before Herm arrived, when we were trying to trade away the future for one last run for Lamar) and spend half of the 30 Mill we have to spend and we surely would have won alot more games and it wouldnt look as bad for Herms tenure and he might be in his second playoff appearence in three years here.

If we had our par defense of last year (before CP traded away our best player JA and most of our depth) we would be in the playoffs right now with the offensive output weve gotten out of our kids

He inherited alot of ancient talent (Trent, Roaf, Shields, Kennison, TRich, Wiegman, Holmes, Hicks) when he took the job and the youth either sucked (Sims, Siavii, Bartee, Warfield, Parker, Wilson) or hadnt hit the field (Wilkerson, Battle, Fox) What was he supposed to do, go to the superbowl with a team of retirees and never beens?

Bowe
Tank
Bradley
Carr
Flowers
Page
Pollard
Hali
Cottam
Dorsey
Charles
Thigpen
Cox

these are players that are coming along or have arrived and were brought in by Herms scouting

Tony G
Waters

These are the veterans we still have and they both made the pro bowl

I think Herm has laid a good foundation to a championship football team here and has been going with the 4 year plan and is due an offseason of a couple "premier free agents" as well as another fruitful draft, in which we would be very competitive next year.

I Feel that Herm has bought the best groceries, cooked the meal, and now someone else will be able to come in let it cool and eat it, because the foundation is already laid and he will have a great GM in place that will be able to get the few missing pieces we need to get back where we want.

Give us a Peppers and a Vilma and a good draft and boom we are back in the thick of things

proceed with slamming me, but consider the fact I may be more right than many here...

As a fan, I hope you're right.

What I see:
1. A good back-up QB.
2. 1 WR. Nothing beyond this.
3. Decent RB, assuming LJ returns. I heard we're deep here.
4. An aging but still very good TE, who might not return.
5. Albert and Waters on the O-line. Not much else.
6. Nothing on the D-line. I'm still very hopeful about Dorsey, though.
7. Nothing at LB. DJ has proved he is average. There's nothing else.
8. Average at best at the safety position.
9. CB is a strength, but I'm not sold on Carr as a starter.
10. P, no problem.
11. K might be able to upgrade.

Serious lack of talent, IMO. The most hopeful players to me are Albert and Flowers. They look to have "star" potential.

Interesting juxtaposition of posts.

LMAO

Good luck BossChief

Is that Tommy Lee Jones in your Avatar?

At all.

It is completely confounding how much love is given to the shortish guy with many of the same warts as both Bradford and Stafford. Seemingly based on little more than Mecca's mancrush over him.

Sanchez is a distant 3rd on my list.

Yep, I'm a bit of a Lonesome Dove fanatic.

Sanchez is listed at 6'3'', which is the same as Stafford.

Sanchez will be the best of the three.

So what's the current state of things?

I agree, the talent excuse is an old one, and I don't buy it. The talent shortcomings have been in the coaching/management.

If the Chiefs didn't have talent they would lose games by more then 10 points. The Chiefs lost 8 games by a TD or less? They come out flat in the 3rd qtr which tells me it's coaching. The opposing teams coaches are able to make adjustments at half time. This is why if we get Pioli I hope he hires an X & O's coach. I think Josh McDaniels might be a good coach the Pats offense was able to adjust after Tom Brady and Matt Cassell didn't even start a single game in college.

I see us going 8-8 next season, and make the POs in 2010. Flame away. JMO.

I think Sanchez starts out the best, and Stafford becomes the best of the 3.

Amen brotha.

I've also seen him listed at 6'2'' with Bradford listed at 6'4'' (and Stafford at 6'3'').

That's what Harlan or Hothlus( those people's talking voices all sound the same to me )was saying yesterday in defense of Herm.

What a load. A mediocre Coach and support staff could have won games these guys.
And Gun? He doesn't teach tackling anymore it seems. The lack of fundamentals on that front four and LB corps is absolutely atrocious, and the NFL rankings prove it.

If we get Josh Mcdaniel as the new HC Bradford would be best for that offense.

You ever see "Centennial" the series? I am wanting to get my hands on it. If you are a lonesome dove/Jeramiah johnson/Dances with Wolves type, as I am, you would love it. Sorry, not trying to hyjack the thread.

That's a pretty bold prediction.
I believe Stafford can evolve to Mark's current level, no doubt. But how high can Sanchez go? Depending on the total element around him and his work ethic, the sky may NOT be the limit.

So to speak.

I would like to think this team was a seven win team that got coached to 2 wins and that it can be fixed in one offseason. Unfortunately, I think that more often than not, the a teams record says who they really are. I mean, they coulda lost the two they won just as easily.

I definitely think they are better than their record.

The question is, "how much better?"

A coaching change and a decent draft should lead to at least 6 wins next year, IMO.

Big bingo! Their have been many debates on this site if a new D Cor. should have a 3-4 scheme or a 4-3 scheme or be a cover two guy or yadda, yadda, yadda. I wan't a new D cor. who's scheme is wrap a guy up! I mean does Pollards arms ever leave his hips? Surely there is somebody out there we can bring in to remind our players on defense that its called TACKLE football for a reason.

I fully disagree.

LT: Above Average - B
LG: Excellent - A
C: Below Average - D
RG: Fail - F
RT: Fail - F
TE: Excellent - A
WR1: Above Average - B
WR2: Average - C
WR3: Below Average - D
RB: Above Average - B
QB: Below Average - D

So on offense, the Chiefs are a flat D: 60%. 33 out of 55. I wouldn't call that talented.

Now the defense.

RDE: Average - C
DT: Average - C
DT: Average - C
LDE: Fail - F
OLB: Average - C
MLB: Fail - F
OLB: Below Average - D
CB: Good - A
CB: Above Average - B
FS: Average - C
SS: Average - C

31/55: 56%. F: FAIL.

This team needs an infusion of play-makers and at least average players on the offensive line to become competitive.

They're 58% as a starting unit with little or no depth.

They have a long way to go before they're considered a "talented" team.

6-8 wins is definitely not out of the realm of possibility.

You'll get no argument from me.

:)

Mecca does NOT have a man-crush! Jesus Christ; the "love" comes from watching the players PLAY. The "love" comes from recognizing that Mark's overall talent, as it stands right now, is several levels above his competitors.

Go to You Tube, watch fan-films and highlights, get a copy or copies of Georgia and USC games.
Study.

The only way the Chiefs get to 8 wins if they grab Vilma and Suggs out of free agency, add studs at the RG and RT position, and Thigpen or a rookie QB plays out of his mind.

Oh, and no major injuries.

2009 more than likely will be a 4 to 6 win season, 2010 should be .500 and 2011 on is when the run happens.

:spock:

The mancrush is on Stafford, not Sanchez.

He's just recently started pimping Sanchez, because before the Rose Bowl, it was generally accepted that he would not declare. (And still may not)

These guys would have made great Berserkers 1000 years ago, but that's not the game we're playing.
And I blame Herm's soft-camp as well. That, and Krummy; that guy is the most obnoxious and useless squad-coach I have ever seen captured on film.:cuss:

I have to disagree with both of these statements. The Chiefs definitely need more talent but if they would have had a real coaching staff they would have won at least 2-3 more games.

This team lost 8 games by 7 points or less you are talking just a handful of plays and this team could have been 7-9, or 8-8 this year.

Ron Rivera is a cover two coach who's done a hell of a job with the Chargers 34 since he took over.

A good coach can get results regardless of the system he is most familiar with.

****her is a useless blowhard bitch.

Sorry, but the soft camp debate is overblown.

One, I've witnessed a week of a Herm Edwards camp, and a week of Dick Vermeil camp, and the only differences were in the TIME it took to get the same thing accomplished.

With DV, there was a lot of time between drills, guys aimlessly walking around, time being wasted.

Herm had shorter practices, but was up-tempo the entire time. Guys weren't standing around wondering what was going to happen next.

Two, Brian Billick's camps in Baltimore were jokingly known as Club Med. Last I checked, the Ravens were pretty damn good for the most part when he was there - especially in the month of December.

You don't beat your team up in August and expect them to still have gas in the tank in December/January.

No team is going to win more than 2 games if they only sack the opposing QB less than a dozen times in a season.

The Chiefs are dreadfully low on playmaking talent.

No amount of coaching can make up for poor athleticism.

I guess I should have mentioned Marty Camp. That's what I was thinking of.

You're assuming that the problem IS athleticism and NOT coaching.

I'm not saying that Hali, Tyler, McBride, etc are going to be superstars by any means.

But considering that Herm Edwards and Tim Krumrie are the only NFL coaches they've ever known, let's just say I wouldn't be shocked if our DL looks WORLDS better next year with nothing more than different coaches.

And that lack of talent was brought to you by none other than Herm & Carl.

1 down.... 1 to go.

I agree with this, but if we could get a stud pass rusher, I think Tamba may be able to get back to 8 sacks on the other side, and that would make HUGE difference in our D. If we could get 12 sacks from the RDE spot. It really changes the dynamic of this D, but that is a big if.

30 mil in cap + Picking 3rd each round should change that in 1 season.

I just don't see those guys in the same class as DeMarcus Ware, Merriman, Tuck, Umenyora, etc.

They're solid players but not playmakers.

We'll see.

I'm not counting on the draft to provide a play-making DE.

Terell Suggs or Julius Peppers are playmakers.

They don't all NEED to be pro bowl players, IMO.

But it's an even harder hill to climb when the coaching staff has no ****ing clue how to use you. Hali, Dorsey, McBride and Tyler have all been misused since the day they arrived in KC.

Maybe we could land Suggs. I wonder how he would do from a 4-3 DE spot.

Micheal Johnson may slide into the top of the 2nd as well. He could help.

i disagree and my example is this

our offense at the beginning of this year was astronomically bad. We made a talent change at one position. We change to a quarterback who is, by your own rating, a well below average quarterback. Yet our offense went from terrible to average virtually overnight.

how can that be if we put a "D grade" quarterback out there?

coaching ...... we put a system out there with a little of gimmick to it and we got huge returns.

talent stayed the same = results were fantastic

imagine what would happen if we improve at quarterback and right tackle with a quality system?

on defense, we get a viable RDE and a couple of decent linebackers and we will be competitive if we get some quality coaching.

do we need more talent .... absolutely .... but imo our coaching has been the weakest part of the team.


talent priorities for 2009 imo

offense
QB
RT

defense

RDE
OLB
SSLB
Safety (pick either FS/SS and get a freakin stud in there)


it's not easy, but if we can add 5/6 impact players then i think we are very competitive next year IF we get some decent coaching.

The offense needs a new RB too. LJ won't be here, Charles isn't a every down back, Kolby Smith? Meh.

Pepper is too old and will be on his third contract.

No thanks.

got this email today:

Okay gang, as many of you know I still have friends at the highest

level in the Chiefs organization and have this info to share with full

confidence:
Scott Pioli is the new GM.
His announcement will come Thursday or Friday at the latest.
Clark and Scott are working out the finer points of his contract
tonight, but the deal is sealed. Also, Clark informed Herm Edwards
and his coaching staff that they will be released.
All assistants can reapply through Scott.



I only share this information because I'm no longer with the team and

it's fun to share that a new day is dawning at Arrowhead. Scott Pioli

will quickly move to clean out the front office and hire a new coach.

The only info I have on the new coach is it will not be Kirk Ferentz

from the Iowa Hawkeyes. Kirk coaches his son at Iowa and does not

want to leave until his son graduates.

Mike Shanahan has contacted Pioli, but I don't know any info beyond that.

No, they don't have to all be Pro Bowlers but it's a fact that you can't coach football instinct, speed or athleticism.

Face it: There is no "hidden" talent on this team. There's no "Jared Allen" in waiting and there certainly not a Neil Smith or Derrick Thomas just waiting to receive better coaching.

Guys like that, impact guys don't need coaching. You just turn them loose. The Chiefs don't have that right now on defense and the greatest D-line coach or defensive coordinator in the world wouldn't be able to create a guy like that with the existing talent.

I think we should pick up Sproles, have him split time with Charles, and pick up a bruiser back somewhere. I'm an advocate of a RB committee. It keeps RBs fresh and decreases wear, and tear.

So you're going to wait 3 years before getting someone who can get after the QB? Our defense is young I'd say it's not bad to have a couple of veterans on the defense. Peppers still has time to be productive so I think it'd be a good signing.

Sproles is not going anywhere. SD needs him to help take teh load off of LT next season.

You think the Chargers won't re-sign him? It'd be smart if they kept him over LT. Do we pick up a big back in free agency or in the draft?

JFC. 5 to 6 impact players? Well **** yeah! The Chiefs should go 10-6 or better with 5 to 6 impact players! But for ****sake Dude, that's about as likely as drafting a HOF QB in the 6th round!

If the Chiefs can acquire three impact players in the 2009 off-season, I'd be pleased as punch.

And how I can I rate Thigpen as below average? Well, when a QB's numbers fall off drastically in the second half of 9 consecutive games and during that time, the same QB wins only one start, I'd say he'd be considered below average at this point in time.

Additionally, he hasn't proven he can play under center effectively, which by my estimation, is pretty important.

We definitely need help at the DE spot, but we should be able to find some decent help in the draft, or FAcy. I think Selvie could be had in the 2nd, and would be a hell of a passing situation upgrade.

Really?

How can you say that?

There are guys in this league that are passed over time after time, then for some reason, it clicks.

James Harrison of the Steelers is a perfect example.

The good thing is, these guys are ALL young. How many players have looked like dogshit in their first 2-3 years, then all of a sudden "got it?" It happens all the time.

If these guys were 8-10 year veterans, then yeah, I'd say we've probably seen what they really are.

There is no way to fix the defense unless we get a good defense pass rushing end. Dorsey even if he was good couldnt do it by himself. We need ends in the worst way. We set the damned record that a team that played 14 games set. Yet we did it in 16 games. PATHETIC!

I am ok with not drafting a qb this draft. I wont be made if we get one, but we do need help on the dline really really bad.

Peppers in a contract year. Look at his numbers over the past several years. Furthermore, he'll be over 30.

NO ONE OVER 30!

Just speculation on my part, but we know they are not going to franchise him, and that sends him to the highest bidder. A bruiser can be found just about anywhere. FAcy, or the latter rnds of the draft.

610 said we offered Pioli the job but 2 things....

1. He wants to be paid like the top GM in the league.
2. He wants total control.

How? Do you honestly think that Hali or McBride is somehow going to emerge into a pass rushing machine? Derrick Johnson's had 4 years and he's been average at best. Donnie Edwards is old, Rocky Boiman is slow, Jason Babin is done, Pat Thomas sucks. Who do you think is lingering around on this squad just waiting to explode?

Not to take anything away from him but Harrison is surrounded by monster talent.

Yep. No thanks.

Pioli wants total control over football operations not business. Why wouldn't we give him total control of the football side?