There is some history that says the score is at least strongly correlated:

http://www.foxsports.com/college-foo...erbacks-041515

Alex Smith = 40.

The prosecution rests, your honor.

If you don't see how that translates, you're a ****ing moron.

That's what he's saying, and he's right. Take Cam's elite mobility away, and he would fail as a pocket passer.

It doesn't translate, just as I said. By that reckoning, Alex Smith should be the most awesome QB that ever picked up a goddamned football, not a walking advertisement for Dramamine.

You're completely missing the point.

Alex Smith is a very intelligent QB.

It's not the be all end all in evaluating a QB, but it does measure intelligence, and that's a very important "box" to check.

You might think in your little delusional world that Alex Smith is a failure and a terrible QB, but he's not. He's been as successful as he has, and salvaged his career due to his intelligence (and intangibles).

Which is why he would have been a great fit for us to sit him 2 or 3 years and let him learn.

Kubiak has a good system that worked very well for Schaub in Houston and then Flacco in Baltimore. Lynch has the physical abilities and athleticism be a top 10 QB, he just needs to learn the game like every other spread QB.

It sucks but he could be very good in that system. Hopefully Denver starts him week 1 and ruins him.

He's been successful due to his intelligence and legs. He's not a failure, but he's hardly championship-winning material unless the entire roster, every position, is in prime health all the way to the end.

this is true for all QB's, not just Alex

Which part?

How the **** does Kubiak get any credit for Flacco? What was that? One year?

Also, he had success with Matt Schaub because they had Foster and Johnson, not because Schaub was worth a ****. He was a complete failure in the end.

If Lynch turns out to be Flacco or Schaub, that doesn't scare me one bit. The bottom line is he's never going to be even close to what Peyton was.

One thing I don't see people talking about is their aging WR group. By the time Lynch is ready those guys will be done/gone.

All QB's need an elite roster around them to win a SB.

Some more than others.

Yea the elite vs. everybody else.

ROFL

Still feels really awesome.

Wade Phillips agrees:thumb:

Agreed. Last year proves your point in bold.

Still pure speculation and unlikely.

Yeah but at the same time look at the talent those QB's have?

People bashed Alex for years BC he couldn't throw a TD or get a WR 1k yards. Isn't it some ironic shit that the guy had average at best WR's in his career and finally looks good when a real WR shows up last season?

And if he had 2, I'm sure he'd get more.

I'm not trying to be a smartass, but his 15 numbers were similar to previous years.

Is this the thread where Dinver fans jack each other off over their rookie QB?

He makes you seasick?

Your trolling doesn't work here. Literally half the posters here weren't alive the last time we picked a QB in round one.

Carsick, seasick, just ate at Golden Corral sick...

All I know is Dan Marino scored a really low wonderlic and I shall use this example to believe Lynch is the awesome.

LMAO

Those gifs knowmo posted are embarrassing. One read QBs do not succeed at the pro level...none. Dude is struggling to pick up simple concepts.

Well...I do know the more post of yours I read..the stupider I progressively become...so you have that going for you.

The "burden" is knowing there are people out there with no independent thought...yet think they are "enlightened". Trying to navigate within that social climate is as fascinating as it is horrifying.

Talking with Donko-tards doesn't exactly renew faith in my fellow man.

Just look at Flacco's numbers before, during, and after Kubiak's one year in Baltimore.

Kubiak gonna turn Lynch into all pro, SB winning QB all before he turns 25.

It was probably his best season statistically, but not even by a significant margin whatsoever. Let's not act like Kubiak came in and changed Flacco's career. It was after they had already won a SB, and they added a pissed off Steve Smith. I would say Kubiak's run scheme and Forsett helped him out though.

Wow. Looks unstoppable.

Of course he isn't going to be Peyton. Luck is the only QB today that could he Peyton.

That is obvious, but I didn't just say he isn't going to be Peyton. I said he's not going to be anywhere close. Meaning he'll be lucky to even be as good as Flacco. That's his cieling IMO, and it just doesn't scare me.

Thomas and Sanders will be gone/done by the time he's ready, as will Talib, Ware, and Ward. They will still have to build around him through the draft.

I have no idea if Paxton Lynch will be a below average, average, above average, great or an elite QB.

I do know that John Elway has shown that's he's among the best talent evaluators and executives in the NFL since 2011, which makes me side on the err of caution when projecting Lynch's career trajectory.

Elway's 2011 and 2012 drafts were very good. Since then he has been average at best.

Really? Define average.

But it's hard to dismiss the fact that he signed key free agents that led them to two Super Bowl appearances in four seasons, along with a win last season, after firing his previous coaching staff.

While no VP/GM is infallible, I'd tend to think that Elway (and to a lessor extent, Kubiak) know which traits they need in a QB to run their system.

Yes, really.

The Broncos 2013 and 2014 drafts are well below average.

Define great and then you tell me if you think the Bronco's drafts have been great since 2012. If you answer "yes", your homer glasses are bigger than Knowmo's.

Those key free agents came to play with Peyton and win a SB.

I don't think it's a coincidence that now that Peyton is gone Elway couldn't even keep his own guys, including the QB he handpicked. Where's all that magic now?

Also, I'll ask this question again, what QB's have Elway/Kubiak successfully drafted and developed?

I just don't see Elway pulling it off again. Getting a QB like Peyton through free agency is a once in a lifetime oppurtunity. He was GMing with a handicap that won't be there anymore. I don't see his future drafts being good enough to overcome the obstacles that are now in his way.

Superbowl championship teams lose players the year following? Weird.
Your football takes are part blind homer, part butt hurt, and part silly.
Nothing wrong with that so long as you recognize it for what it is.

I disagree.

I recently watched several of the America's Game specials on The NFL Network, including the 1997 & 1998 Broncos. Elway was a salesman then, getting Neil Smith to flip in a heartbeat after nine seasons in KC.

The Broncos may not be in the Super Bowl hunt every season under Elway but as he's proven in the past five years, he's not going to be very far from it.

Everybody wants to count their post-Manning chickens.

Better put that goddamned calculator back in the desk until proven otherwise.

Sylvester Williams has been solid and Webster is a special teams stud and an excellent back up DB. Other than that 2013 was disappointing. 2014 has Roby who is an excellent CB, Paradis who is the starting center, Nelson who will be Trevathans replacement and Latimer who is a STs stud and a solid WR coming off the bench on a team stacked at WR. Say what you want about Schoefield but he was the starting LT on a Super Bowl winning team, moving forward, at the very least, he's a very solid backup. Overall, between these 2 drafts there's excellent depth and starters who contributed to a championship.

You want to talk about my football takes. Do you even have any? All I see in your posts are words. I can't honestly think of a time I read a take from you that led me to believe you watch a lot of football and know what you're talking about.

For instance, your excuse that you won a SB. Super Bowl teams lose guys all the time, but at the rate you guys just did? That almost never happens. The fact that you think it is normal is telling. How many SB teams aren't even projected to win their division the following year? You think that kind of turnover is normal after a SB?

It's as blind of an answer as "preseason".

Who did Seattle lose besides Chris Clemons and Red Bryant after their SB?

You can think this was all part of Elway's plan if you want, but it's clear as day that wasn't the case.

I agree. Aside from Roby, they've had some seriously bad picks those years in Latimer, Schofield, Ball (yikes this guy was a big bust).

Elway definitet benifited from Manning being there the year he got all those FA's, which ultimately led to their SB victory.

The thing Denver has been best at is replacing players that retire/leave for $$ in FA.

Holy homer batman!

Yea getting Donal Stephenson away from us at just 5 mil a year is another example of his badass salesmanship!

ROFL

The bottom line is as soon as Peyton retired Elway had his worst offseason. That's not a coincidence. The only reason this offseason looks better is because that first round QB. The problem is, nobody is considering how bad this offseason could be if they miss, which statistically speaking, is the most likely outcome. If that happens, Elway has a lot of shit to clean up after himself in the next few years.

You poor ****er. You think preseason play counts.
You run your mouth about an organization that has been the AFC West champ for pretty much the entire decade,been to 2 Superbowls in 4 years and won one of them. Yet none of it was due to the new GM who presided over all of that.

You're the ****ing idiot that believes Okung wasn't trying when Dee Ford kicked his ass repeatedly. We're not talking about one play here. We're talking about several plays of him clearly struggling with Ford's speed to the point of jumping offsides. But why the **** am I arguing with you? You didn't even see it to have any context. You're just an ignorant moron that argues about shit you obviously have no clue about.

I know you Broncos fans won the SB, so there's no reasoning with you, but the Chiefs were just as good, if not better, when healthy last year. We kicked your ass in Mile High when we were, but just couldn't get it done without our best players when it mattered most. That's our problem, not yours, but it's pretty obvious why we're so confident going into next season. We got a little better this offseason, while you clearly got worse. This division is ours and if you wanna make a bet on that I'm more than willing to.

LMAO you should get a tattoo of that phrase

See what I mean? You can't even have a real rebuttal. You have nothing to say. You're a ****ing clueless idiot.

Come on, man, give Elway some respect. He's overseen the best five year run in franchise history with five straight divisional titles, five straight playoff appearances, two Super Bowl appearances and one win.

I'm in no way a Broncos fan but he's done an outstanding job. If the roles were reversed and we were talking about the Chiefs, I wouldn't give a shit that they just paid Stephenson $5 per because my team just won a Super Bowl.

And keep in mind, every time a Chief has left for the Broncos, it's worked out for them, whether it was Neil Smith, Keith Traylor and so on.

Face it, Dude: Since Elway arrived in Denver back in 1983, they've been the far superior franchise and it's not even close.

This is the guy you should really be watching out for though. Not even kidding.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profil...lor?id=2552416

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/liv...dan-taylor.jpg

I give Elway credit for what he's done, and of course I wish it was us that got Peyton and everything that followed. I just think they caught lightning in a bottle finding an elite/all-time great QB in free agency, and I don't see it happening again in the same fashion. I don't doubt he will make them respectable again, and maybe even a playoff caliber team, but I don't think they'll be a SB contender again any time soon. They don't scare me and neither does Lynch going forward.

It's waaaaaay too early to make that judgement, especially after the unprecedented run of the past five years.

Elway knows football.

What if they miss on Lynch, which is the most likely outcome (statistically speaking)?

Would that, along with aging stars, not set them back a while?

Too much has to go right for the Broncos to quickly get back to SB contention. I refuse to believe Elway is really that good/they're that lucky.

Yea he knows football, but he's admittedly not a true personell guy, and his last few drafts show it. He doesn't have the personell experience that a guy like Dorsey has, and geB has to really nail these next couple of drafts to get them back on track. I just think Dorsey will run laps around him now that Peyton is out of the way and they're in a transitional period.

He is the son of a coach and an actual NFL scout. Your entire post is an insane delusion.

It's not that ****ing hard to win division titles when a HOF QB suddenly becomes available. It's also not hard to attract FA's when a guy like that is on your team. The Patriots won a SB when Brandon Browner and Darrelle Revis came to town for cheap.

What if Dorsey had Manning fall into his lap in 2013? You really think this team wouldn't be in the SB?

Elway has dominated the Chiefs for the past 33 years. His dad was a football coach, he's spent his entire life around football and is a Stanford grad.

He's not a stubborn moron like Pioli or Peterson.

He's a Hall of Fame athlete and he's heading for a HOF career as an exec.

The Broncos, like any organization, will likely have a down year here or there but the guy has already proven to be the best NFL exec of the past five years.

Yeah, except that Manning was awful last year and replaced by an unknown, inexperienced fourth year QB and they STILL won the Super Bowl.

Good grief, people.

No, I don't believe the 2013 Chiefs would have been in the Super Bowl with Manning because the Chiefs lacked skill position players such as WR, TE's, cornerbacks and had a sieve for an offensive line.

A non-mobile QB would have been destroyed behind that line.

Really? Because Elway even said it himself you ****ing moron.

The problem is that Elway isn't the type of guy to sit back and just be oblivious about any aspect of football, so while his ability scout may have been a liability in the beginning, he'll undoubtedly get better.

Shane Ray, his first rounder in 2015, was a definite factor in the Super Bowl.

He played 5 games and almost lost them the top seed if not for Manning stepping in in the last game of the regular season. Manning easily lured their FA's. Without him Sanders is a Chief.

Elway is seriously lucky to get a once in a generation DT clone and HOF top 5 QB available in back-to-back years without having to give up anything.

Meanwhile we get the first pick in a shitty year.

Yeah, you're right: John Elway is lucky and the Chiefs are just unlucky.

:rolleyes:

The Broncos weren't lucky?

That had to be the most fortunate set of events to lead to a SB that I've ever seen. Week 2, the pats(RS)/bengals/chargers/steelers(Playoffs) games. One of those goes the other way and the Broncos don't make it to the SB, more or less win. Not to mention they were relatively healthy throughout the season.

They were so ****ing close to losing that week 17 game and falling to a WC spot. That's why the "Peyton sucked last year" argument doesn't work. He's the only reason their season didn't fall apart in that game. He also did just enough in the playoffs to let their defense take care of the rest. Without Peyton they don't go all the way, so it's just not that simple

Without Peyton they also don't get Ware/Talib/Ward/Sanders, all of whom were key pieces in the SB. Getting him was a ridiculously huge boost that you're just completely ignoring.

I'm not going to pretend they didn't win, or deserve it, but to give Elway all that ****ing credit? No ****ing way.

Carl Peterson was fortunate. If Joe played a few more years we would probably have made a SB. The Chiefs have been littered with unfortunate occurrences the last few years.

1st pick in the worst class in years, tons of injuries to key players in both playoff trips?

It sucks but we've been forced to take the hard road.

Great points BlackOp. You need to go on NFL Network and set those guys straight.

Manning definitely made them a premier destination for free agents, no question about it

There you go again. No real rebuttal. Do you actually care to have a counter argument, or do you just want to keep pretending like you're this holder of knowledge that paradoxically has nothing to say?

John Elway went to five Super Bowls as a player and two more as an exec in the past five years.

It's gotta be luck.

First off, what the **** do his SB's as a player have to do with Elway the GM?

Second, when Peyton is the QB that gets you there, you are certainly fortunate in that regard. Before you mention how Peyton "sucked last year", I've already pointed out why that just doesn't make sense when you look at how things played out. Yea he did suck, but he also saved their ****ing season. Without Peyton, the Broncos lose week 17 and fall to a WC spot as opposed to the #1 seed.

One game was the difference between being a #1 seed and a WC spot. The Broncos walked a tight rope and came out on top. Bravo to them, but even shitty old Peyton gets more credit for that than Elway. I'm sorry.

RunKC and Staylor26 are the two biggest homers in Chiefsplanet history.

John Dorsey's urine cures cancer and brings World Peace while John Elway is just lucky.

lol, you are so convinced that Elway sucks as a GM and the Broncos won the SB due to luck that there's no point in arguing with you. Obviously you have not been on the planet very long or you'd realize how worn out the old "Broncos decline imminent, KC on the rise!!!!!" argument is.

You are no different than countless other KC fan posters who have proclaimed this since the inception of Chiefs Planet.

And, for the record, when Elway said he had to learn a lot about how to be a good NFL GM, that was 5 years ago! At least you can admit he's got 5 years of experience as an NFL executive as a foundation upon which to move forward as the Broncos GM.

Chiefsplanet: where Dane can leave his kids all day to post about how awesome his opinion is and then have temper tantrums with most of posters on the board that hates him anyway.