Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16783496)

That makes no sense at all, unless you want to have a different definition of 'elite'. I don't know what that definition could possibly be, unless it's multiple rings, and expecting a bunch of guys in their mid twenties to have that is pretty ridiculous.

I define elite QB play as top 5 QB, probable HOF type QB's.

I think that's a perfectly reasonable definition. What's yours?

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16783547)

Elite should be reserved for those that what they do on the field day in and day out make you say to yourself "How the **** are they able to do that and do it consistently."

Great ≠ Elite

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16783547)

Elite should be reserved for those that what they do on the field day in and day out make you say to yourself "How the **** are they able to do that and do it consistently."

Great ≠ Elite

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 16783644)

Mahomes at this point is on another level. It’s like saying QBs like rodgers or Peyton (who took a while to win his first SB and a very long time to make his second) weren’t elite because Brady kept winning. Mahomes was elite WAY before he won a super bowl

Burrow has put himself in an elite class of qb. Been in the league for a few years and has already made a Super Bowl.

Originally Posted by Rams Fan (Post 16782812)

I think they'll probably have some drop off in a year or 2 when Burrow's contract hits. It'll be more interesting to see what happens with their offense though as they can't afford Higgins/Chase/Boyd long-term. I think they should move on from Mixon sooner than later.

Also, going by eye test, Burrow hasn't played like shit like Allen did in his 2 PO games this year. He looked like ass vs Miami and he looked like ass vs Cincy. His play vs Miami would have likely cost them the game (along with their defense) if Miami had a QB with a pulse.



Nick Foles is 1-0 vs Brady in the SB, but when you look at the #s, Brady actually outplayed Foles by a large margin. I'd also argue Eli shouldn't have won either SB MVPs (Tyree and Manningham deserve more credit, IMO, with their catches).

Yes, 28-3 is awful. But how much on that is on Ryan vs the defense/Shanahan going conservative on offensive playcalling?



Rivers played on a torn ACL in the AFC Championship game losing by 9 against a team that went 16-0 and had another season end because Schottenheimer went full Schottenheimer vs the Patriots at the worst possible time in 2006 along with a DB fumbling an interception to give Brady a chance to tie the game.

To me, to be considered elite, a QB's play has to elevate those around him. I'd argue Rivers and Ryan both did that.



His defense has helped, yes. But Burrow hasn't played well. He's put the Bengals in a situation to win. As I said, his #s last year were comparable to Jimmy G in the POs. I recognize the defense has been opportunistic and is a large part of their success. But acting as if Burrow is like Trent Dilfer is inaccurate.

If your argument is that Burrow isn't Mahomes, fine. I agree. But if you're going to discredit him, you'd have to day the same with a guy like Brady or Roethlisberger who had good defenses/supporting casts.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16783000)

If you accept my premise that at any point in time, there are 5 people on the planet that can play NFL QB at an elite level, this all makes more sense.

Of course there will always be debate, but the debate should be more about who gets included in the 5 in the last couple of spots.

Some guys are there every year, and those are your sure-fire hall of famers. Some guys age out. Some guys climb into that top 5 but can't maintain that level.

So Ryan absolutely had a year or two there where he was in that category. Rivers spent most of his career hovering around the cut-off point, which is what Herbert looks like he'll do so far. Lamar had a year or two there where he was in that category, but his limitations have been pretty well exposed at this point.

Eli had a couple of seasons where he was certainly there, and several more around the cut-off point, and some where he was not elite. Brady has, at this point, aged out it would appear-but christ, it took until age 45 for cryin' out loud. Manning I think fell out of that 5 his last season and smartly hung it up.

Hurts climbed up in there this season. Will that last? Dunno.

But Mahomes/Burrow/Allen are certainly elite, and you can argue the other two slots, but arguing the top 3 is kind of silly right now.

You can argue that Mahomes is MORE elite, and I'd personally agree, but there's not a question of whether Burrow and Allen qualify as 'elite'.

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16783658)

You guys are waaaay too generous with your views on players.

No way you didn't grow up with participation trophies.

Elite should be reserved for the best of the best.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16783769)

If they're on a trajectory for a gold jacket, the perception problem is yours, not mine.

Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 16783702)

I agree with all of that. My comment was directed to Rams fan who was using the Ryan/Rivers vs Eli argument.

And yes, I know of only three truly elite QBs right now and those are Mahomes, Allen/Burrow (take your pick for who is #2 or #3). From #4-#10 it gets subjective as some are higher on Sherbert than myself while lower on Lawrence than I am. I am also pretty impressed with how much Hurts has improved since he was a freshman at Alabama.

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16783658)

You guys are waaaay too generous with your views on players.

No way you didn't grow up with participation trophies.

Elite should be reserved for the best of the best.

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16783776)

Again, Elite should be special. Saved for the best of the best in HoF. Just being there doesn't equal elite.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16783787)

I feel like I'm trying to have a conceptual argument with the banjo kid from Deliverance.