Also consider the possibility of NE actually getting Howard. That increases the need for coverage options...

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Not interested in Trufant.

Sure seems like NE wants to go on one more big run before it’s over

The Bucs want a 1st for Howard, so they aren’t settling for less than their late 1st.

Hopefully the Bucs keep the price high. Not the end of the world but he is a very good talent not being used well right now.

Chiefs should trade for him. Cut Watkins in the offseason and start running more 12 personnel on offense. Helps us protect Pat while still having a ton of receiving options. It would help the run game too. I super tired, but it seems feasible.

NE getting Howard ****s everyone harder than we are all ****ed. It's so sad how the NFL just doesn't care. They clearly want NE in another SB and are always ignoring penalties and owners don't care if they win another. B
****ing bullshit league.

Feels like Christmas eve and Santa is nowhere to be found. :(

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...trent-williams

Redskins now open to trading tackle Trent Williams

Per Rapoport, Washington has begun the process of looking at potential suitors, but it's unclear how high the team will set the asking price. NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reported that Washington is telling teams it has a second-round pick on the table, meaning the 'Skins are likely holding out for a first-round offer.

What big name WR has he shut down?

Didn't he do well against Hopkins? Certainly outdid him when he caught the interception.

Closing in on 8hrs....looking more and more evident that we are going to do nothing for a second year in a row.

If I’m the pats I do the trade 5 mins before the deadline so no one can counter with a Coverage trade. Bet that happens.

We have a lot of needs next year and after, so I don't see making a trade just to make a trade as a wise thing. Fisher is 28 and Schwartz is 30. While I'm not saying either is done, look at what we have as OT in the fold today.

Dude's 31 and wants out bad. Redskins suck. 2nd round pick?

We really can't send any 1-3rd round picks away anymore. We're going to need to re-stock and grow our own.

Y'all need to get on board with that.

Agreed

It’ll take a borderline elite player to justify giving up a day 2 pick.

Hopkins did essentially nothing against Ware; most of his yards (a mere 55) were underneath catch and runs off isolating LBers.

Ware's playing very well. And we're seeing growth over where he was last year. That's an excellent sign for sustainability.

CB isn't our problem right now.

Veach fired his best bullet(s) on the Clark trade. And now with the lack of cost controlled players on the roster with significant upside due to trades and the horrific 2018 draft, he can't really afford to keep torching day 1 or 2 capital.

So yeah, they probably aren't making a significant move. Nor should they. The problem is that the big moves he made in the last 2 seasons are simply not working out.

This isn't an excuse - its a reckoning. Veach is looking at paying the piper for poor decisions made over the last 18 months right now.

Veach traded for himself? Now that's a trade master!

:harumph:

Some of the big guys on the roster are either hurt, or aren't playing well (maybe because they're hurt).

It's apparently a chiefs curse that when we pay big money for a guy he gets hurt pretty much immediately.

well, to be fair, we don't really know yet on a lot of the moves of the last year.

I'd agree that at this point, it would appear the 2018 draft was crap. Of course, Patrick is part of that, so you know.

Early returns on Clark are not good at the half-way mark of the season. Honey Badger was a good move; Okafor and Ogbah pretty good. Wilson not bad. Breeland and Claiborne looked like saavy pick-ups. This 2019 draft is looking pretty stellar.

So, again, not that I'd say he's been AWESOME, but I would say it's been a mixed bag. We have some holes (but everyone does in the salary cap era) and some things have not gone according to plan.

Regardless, I agree, we've shot our wad and will need to draft and develop now. If 2019's draft is an indication, I'm optimistic.

This is also why it's important to ****ing win when you have your chances. Injuries happen, every team has holes etc.

So much of this shit is luck.

I agree with Chris, DJ, and Pugs. We're not "just one player away", we have the roster today to make a serious SB run. If the D can continue to improve, we're OK. We practically gave 7 to GB with the McCoy fumble, had another 7 scored on us by a miracle/elite QB throw, and got torched for another 7 by a play we should have recognized. All that with an assistant HS coach running the offense.
Now if you want to make an upgrade with a 5-7 round pick(s), groovy, but not 1-3.

I honestly don't think there are any players worth losing draft capital over at this point. It is what it is. When we're healthy, we'll be good to go for the playoffs. Save your draft.

I'd be more interested in a late rounder for a guy they may have liked in the draft that they could develop or something.

But otherwise, probably keep your picks and hope some of these guys get healthy.

Just so ****ing tired of our bigger name dudes always being hurt. Jesus it seems like an every year thing.

Veach has done an excellent job with value moves this year. Hardman, Thornhill, Rankin and Saunders are all on rookie deals until at least the end of 2021. Ward has been a nice corner and Fenton (like Saunders) has shown well in a small sample size.

I would argue that Veach getting literally nothing but Nnandi from the 2018 draft is worse than the major FA splashes.

I like what Veach did this offseason aside from his big signings. Trying to get a bunch of cheap value players like Ogbah, D. Wilson and D. Lee along with the draft is what I’d like to see Veach do. Sure all of them won’t work out, but even having 1 or 2 guys working out for a cheap contract is crucial for us.

Special team needs fresh out of college boost

Race the track, not the drivers.

Stick to your plan. Build your team. Stop being reactive; it's a roadmap to disaster.

I believe O.City has used this analogy in discussing draft picks - the dartboard. Would you trade 2 of your 3 darts to get 2 steps closer to the board? 3 steps? 4?

There's always a calculus involved here and sometimes that answer is yes. The Mahomes trade was trading away 2 darts to stand AT the board and slam the ****ing thing into the bullseye. You make that move.

The Clark trade? That was 2 darts to put one foot over the line.

And anything we do right now may only cost us a single dart, but it's only gonna get your toes over the line in the process. At some point, just keep the damn darts and take your chances with what you have.

We're at that point.

Dj we discussed this a bit last year I think, but I think this season is a perfect example, thus far, of why when you have your chance you need to go for it.

This was supposed to be a SB or bust season, but injuries have just piled up too much. It's so unpredictable.

Now, maybe that's a reason for spreading it out and giving yourself as many chances as you can, but at some point, you've gotta just go for it.

Thing is, the defense has actually done what we all wanted it to do. It's pretty much middle of the pack and improving.

The offense just hasn't held it's end of the bargain.

I've always been in the "go for it" crowd as well....I use the Packers as the #1 reason. They have had a HOF QB every year since the mid 90's and only have 2 Super Bowls to show for it. This tells me you need to strike while the iron is hot.

What’s interesting about this is Honey Badger is the only player on defense who is highly paid that is living up to his billing.

The rest are value guys and draft picks. I think we need to do what DJ is suggesting. Try to load up on cheap value players, obtain more draft picks so you have more chances to hit on players and move your defense to a wide range.

With how much injuries play a part, I’d try load up on decent young players. Pretty clear that that plan is better than banking on only a few highly paid players.

It works fine I think in the regular season. Depth is always tested. But in the playoffs, you need your horses to be there and make plays.

My thing now with defense is that teams are just so good at finding your weaknesses (getting a Rb on a LB etc) that you need those dudes that can be difference makers to actually make up for that and be difference makers.

Your Chris Jones and Frank Clarks can be disruptive and cover some of those holes.

The defense is never going to be complete. No team will be. That's why you need difference makers to help with, we just seem to always have those guys hurt or under perform.

It's frustrating, though, to see teams that are winning championships so routinely take that approach. I mean the Patriots are obviously the gold standard for that sort of thing but even the Eagles weren't out there taking wild swings in FA.

The 'value plays' have been clearly the best path to using resources in pursuit of a championship for the better part of a decade. Yet instead of leaning heavily into that, Veach will go out there and take these MASSIVE risks on guys who's contracts make 'upside' impossible. At best they play to their deals but in all likelihood they'll bust. Even Clark, had he played to the previous 3 years of his production, wouldn't have been worth that contract and draft picks. He just wouldn't have been - that's top 5 defender money and a massive pick haul. He was NEVER a top 5 player or anything approaching it.

Veach's problem is that he'll offset these smart, calculated gambles with wild-ass luxury plays (the tunnel vision that I get so frustrated by). And the two sets of decisions seem so irreconcilable that you wonder how - or even IF - the same guy made them.

How can the same guy who traded for Ogbah and Ward have made that Clark trade? How can the guy that spotted an undervalued (though flawed) Wilson on the Cowboys roster have given Hitchens that god-awful contract? Or given Erving his deal when he can see someone like Rankin has value?

There's such a disconnect between the good moves and bad moves that he makes that it almost makes me agree with the folks that think Andy's making the call on these big money signings. Because they simply do not make sense in concert with some of the other deals.

But the bottom line is that Veach has the title and its his burden to bear. And there's something to say for the ol' mixing 1 gallon of ice cream and 1 gallon of shit maxim. He cannot have this many misses on his ledger.

It also shows that winning SB's is just ****ing hard. And random. And lucky.

The Colts had Peyton freaking Manning for a decade plus and won 1.

The Patriots have skewed everyone's mentality to how this thing is or should be. They are the outlier, not the norm and we'll never see that again, anywhere.

I see it as just the opposite.

This season demonstrates exactly WHY it's better to have more bites at the apple than it is to lean into a single attempt.

And fellas - make no mistake - the Chiefs got LUCKY with Mahomes. That could easily have been a season-ender. And if so, what then? Your best laid plans are shot to shit.

So far better to be able to regroup and attack the following season.

Look at what happened in Philly when Andy was in charge. Now look at these big moves here.

Kinda see a pattern there.

I was morseo talking about last year but that's not very clear.

But yeah, if Pat is done for a season and you blew your wad, your stuck. Like the Steelers.

If your QB goes down for the year, just call it a day, start prepping for the next draft.

It’s probably a big ask but if your full arsenal of offensive weapons is healthy come playoff time, they’re good enough to get you back to the title game.

An improving defense (which we’ve been seeing) is good enough to win it, IMO.

The fact that offenses have gotten so good at attacking your weaknesses is exactly why the stars and scrubs model that Veach seems to favor is so flawed.

If you have a weak point on your defense, opponents WILL exploit it. All the money in the world spent on our D-Line doesn't mean shit when you can barbecue our LBs in coverage pretty routinely. And teams won't do it every play or every drive (it isn't Madden), but you KNOW that when they need it, they'll have it.

Give me 3 above average players over 1 'difference maker' and 2 JAGs every time. Especially on defense.

It is more critical than ever that your defense simply be sound across the board than it is that you have stars on it. Without Clark or Jones last week we saw Ogbah and Okafor play better. Saunders has stepped up his game. Go run with simply decent guys at EVERY spot on the field and you'll be in good shape.

But we're playing 9 on 11 on too many plays given the god-awful condition of this linebacker group. Cannot have that.

Slay and Jenkins will not get moved

This season is nothing close to over.

But with every week they're making their slog just a little tougher come January. Combined probability alone says that winning 3 games is a hell of a lot harder than winning 2 and that's probably the best we can hope for at this point. Worse still, higher stress games down the stretch yield MORE injuries at those critical junctions and less of an ability to manage workloads and get guys healthy and/or keep them fresh.

We're using up rope here that we'd sure like to have available in December. The degree of difficulty is getting higher. It's not impossible (nothing is with Mahomes under center) but you hate to see a franchise known for post-season dick-stepping put themselves in a harder position going forward.

Look across the league though. It's just damn near impossible to have 11 above average defenders and when you do, it's gonna be extremely short lived because those guys will get overpaid in free agency and leave.

Theoretically, when you've got guys like Khalil Mack or whoever, they can cover some of that stuff by just ****ing shit up.

The Chiefs guys that are supposed to do that, don't or haven't.

I'm all for building a d that is just solid everywhere. But that takes so much luck and I don't know that it's really feasible.

The only off season miss I see this year is with Clark. That may change as the season goes on, but you have to admit he did pretty well in this year's draft and picking up some top-flight backups (Ogbah).

Looking at the schedule, I really see a path to 12 wins. Really, the only 'tough" win you'll have to have is beating either New England or Minny.

Sure, you have to finish 7-1. But you're telling me they shouldn't beat Denver, LACx2, Oakland, Chicago (by then they'll be on Chase Daniel or some other shit bird), and the Titans?

Sure you've had some games they should have won this year, but they should be getting healthy and as you said, with Mahomes and the offense healthy, they should wreck.

Okafor's looking pretty not great (by some measures he's been among the worst DEs in the league this year). And Lee, while low cost, seems to have been overly relied upon. He may not have cost much to acquire, but he also seems to have been Veach's answer to the Will position and that's damning in its own way.

And the lack of depth on the OL or serious efforts to replace Morse isn't something you hand-waive either.

Veach had, at best, a middling off-season and because of that he finds his hands largely tied at the deadline, IMO.

This is exactly why I think it’s better to trade Chris Jones for a draft pick and use that money on adding more decent players to the defense.

I just don't know what you could or should have done on the OL. When you have that many guys go down, it just kind of is what it is. Erving has been passable at LT and Rankin has been good at LG.

I'd have liked to have seen them do something at C, but you're gonna have to go cheap and developmental somewhere.

And they haven't lost to a bad team yet. Their schedule has been SAVAGE.

But at some point you have to stop making excuses for losing to good teams and !@#$ing start beating them. We heard some of the same stuff last year when we almost beat 4 playoff teams and instead...didn't. Then the same reasons we lost to those teams showed up in the AFCCG.

The time for moral victories is well in our rearview. This is a contender that's 1-3 at home and has clearly definable and exploitable weaknesses. That shit needs to get resolved and the Vikings game is a significant litmus test, IMO.

but that's a LOT of shitty drafting. It doesn't mean you need to go completely the opposite direction.

That's exactly why I didn't want Clark.

I'll take Jones over Clark 10 times out of 10. But with the Clark move, our hands may well be tied and moving Jones may be the only available option.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">10 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TradeDeadline?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#TradeDeadline</a> Predictions..<br><br>Melvin Gordon ➡️ Bills <br>Alex Erickson ➡️ Packers<br>Eifert ➡️ Seahawks <br>Mike Gesicki ➡️ Saints <br>Trent Williams ➡️ Browns <br>Dalvin Tomlinson ➡️ Chiefs<br>Vic Beasley ➡️ Raiders <br>De’Vondre Campbell ➡️ Colts<br>LeShaun Sims ➡️ Raiders <br>Chris Harris ➡️ Eagles</p>&mdash; Chad Forbes (@NFLDraftBites) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLDraftBites/status/1189174843306065920?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 29, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It's just a different excuse this year. A hurt QB.

The defense has been more than good enough IMO. If you have the offense of the Jags game or even the Ravens game, they win atleast 2 of those.

They're built to be an offensive juggernaut. When they aren't that, they just can't beat good teams. I tend to think that's how most teams are though to. We've seen what happens to the Texans when they can't play the way they are built.

Now you're never gonna be at full strength, I get it. But they just seemed to hit the threshold for injuries about a month ago.

Man I would take Tomlinson.

Tomlinson would be a nice replacement for Jones going forward. Not nearly the same caliber player but one of those 'solid' and cost-effective replacements we're looking for.

You'd have him for this year and next at a 2nd rounders contract, so a relative pittance. Is that worth a 4th? Probably - he's a nice player. Not sure I'd go beyond that though.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@AdamSchefter</a> on <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ESPN?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ESPN</a>: Eagles are &quot;making calls&quot; and have &quot;been trying&quot; to land &quot;top-flight cornerbacks.&quot; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TradeDeadline?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#TradeDeadline</a></p>&mdash; Cody Benjamin (@CodyJBenjamin) <a href="https://twitter.com/CodyJBenjamin/status/1189190239048196096?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 29, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Yeah, that's what you need in there.

Lets do that.

Guys we did a complete overhaul of the defense from the top down in the offseason.

It was going to take a while for it to come together. It's not Madden, you don't just change everything and roll with no adjustment period.

I think the defense is improving, despite massive injuries. If we get Jones and Clark (and now Okafor) back, look out.

The offensive line problems have been a HUGE issue. Mahomes out is a HUGE issue. Complaining that we're 5-3 with all these injuries (and Mahomes hobbled since week one) is nuts.

There's nothing you can do when the injury bug hits like this. You try to weather the storm, but hindsight isn't helpful, and complaining about results isn't either.

If this team gets relatively healthy, then yeah, it is the Superbowl contender we all thought it was.

If it gets healthy, the defense is going to continue to get better. Mahomes will be Mahomes. It's an excellent squad.

See I can’t agree with this. I understand that Veach missed on some low risk/low cost guys like Darron Lee, but you have to keep in mind that this is year 1 in a 4-3 with new personnel. Can’t fix it all next year.

We are 5th in sacks and 17th in PPG. That’s an improvement over last year. And yeah the major thing is the LB’s are still bad, but if they can get a couple of additions there next year, our defense will be above average.

Not getting the Okafor hate either. He’s been a solid rotational vet that’s on pace for 6 sacks. That’s pretty much living up to his billing IMO. He’s only making 30% of what Clark is making.

Again, we are seeing good early returns from Hardman, Thornhill, Saunders and Rankin plus the Ogbah trade has been a big hit.

I think if we have more offseasons like this one (minus the big Clark trade), we’ll be just fine.

I’d be in for the big run stuffer Dalvin Tomlinson!

This.

Get it done VEACH!!

Eagles have 9 picks in 2020...

They can have Harris straight up for their R2 or their R3 and R5 from NE.

Is this just wishful thinking or are their rumors out there for Tomlinson?

The Lions want similar compensation for Slay that the Rams gave up for Ramsey. ROFL

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">From <a href="https://twitter.com/gmfb?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@gmfb</a>: The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Lions?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Lions</a>’ asking price for CB Darius Slay has remained incredibly high so I don’t see him getting traded today, nor has there been any indication <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Giants?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Giants</a> CB Janoris Jenkins is on the move. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NFLTradeDeadline?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NFLTradeDeadline</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AsOfRightNow?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AsOfRightNow</a> <a href="https://t.co/7mMEPkvAaP">pic.twitter.com/7mMEPkvAaP</a></p>&mdash; Mike Garafolo (@MikeGarafolo) <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1189152929846038532?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 29, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

NFL Network's Mike Garafolo reports the Lions have told teams that compensation for CB Darius Slay has to be similar to what the Rams gave up for CB Jalen Ramsey.


Yea mark him off the list.

With the acquisition of Williams it’s more likely that they want to move on from him. I would trade a third for him. Not much of a pass rusher but an elite run defender

Apparently the Broncos are not motivated to move Harris and won't do it for anything less than a 2.

I really don’t think we’d have as much concern over the Clark deal if he were healthy. I don’t think he has been for awhile. Still our best DE though.

Hopefully he can get there soon so that he’s playing at peak levels when it matters most.

See to me, that's so stupid.

He's leaving after the year and you'll get a 3rd maybe comp pick in 2 years or just get a 3 this year.

If it's a neck thing, I hope it's not a disc issue. That wouldn't be good and he could be out a while.

Fans just want the team to always do something and then bitch when they do it. It’s annoying as hell.

On the opening day of FA in March:

“Sign someone Veach you ****ing clown! JFC just fire this lame ass if he doesn’t spend, spend spend!”

Okay spend on what? Hitchens? Sammy? Or make another big move via trade in Clark? So we bitch at Veach for not making moves that a lot of posters have ended up hating?

Get those values. Alex Okafor’s at 30% of an elite contract, Justin Houston’s at 66% of an elite contract, Morris Claiborne’s at a very low price to fill in as depth and the rest through the draft and smaller trades (Ogbah).

I’d keep him out as long as necessary to ensure he’s there full tilt come playoff time. If that means a month, so be it.

He’s the type of dude that isn’t going to be intimidated by NE and all their shit. I can see him wrecking Brady (if he’s good to go)...

The day is not over and they may try to just resign him, either is fine as he has several years left in the tank.

Fans are fans. They wouldn't bitch at him if his big moves worked out.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Jets?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Jets</a> are looking to trade star RB Le’Veon Bell before the trade deadline, per <a href="https://twitter.com/MMehtaNYDN?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MMehtaNYDN</a></p>&mdash; Dov Kleiman (@NFL_DovKleiman) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1189206400301502466?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 29, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Send them a 7th?