I certainly thought it was partial until they started talking about the double graft and looked it up.

A) I can't see anything anywhere to suggest they'd do it in the case of a partial tear. If it was what the reporting suggest it was, what they do is double the replacement over to strengthen it and then put in extra 'tacks' to deal with the fact that it's now doubled over. That's a rebuild either way.

B) I don't think it matters if you're actually rebuilding the ligament. If it's a partial tear and you rebuild it, you're going to structurally sever it anyway when you put the new ligament in.

Wasn't it Houston who had a 'partial' ACL tear and it just didn't matter? They had to go cut the thing out to put a new one in.

My memory on this is that if you're rebuilding, there's little functional distinction in partial vs. full tears. The only difference is in the amount of trauma to the surrounding areas. In the case of a full tear, your odds are increased that you ripped up other shit in the process.

But when it comes to the recovery of the rebuilt ligament specifically, there's no practical difference.

Grudges die hard, I guess....I simply think arguing the same point, again and again, you're right--I don't get. It's why I gave up the exercise in futility that is DC. If you put so much behind it, do yourself a favor--spend less energy posting here, and apply for an NFL job, man. Go for it. :thumb:

Bingo.

Now imagine having the car a year and your realize the odometer was wrong and it really only has 20,000 original miles and is going to be dependable for the next 4...best $600 bucks you could have spent.

The talent at WR is going to dip pretty hard (IMO) once Burden is off the board. I'd be inclined to stay with the room where it's at now and look at RB or Defense.

Yeah but can he dunk?

We keep talking like this kid is borderline paraplegic. I'd take 80% Simmons over anything that's available. How else do yall expect to land a top level LT?
They are rarely available in free agency. You wanted to move up for a lesser player like Conerly who the Texans passed on, despite having a dire need at the position?
We never pick in the top 10. So, what other solution do you offer in acquiring one?

What? Dude, I've thumbed up your posts in this thread even though I dont' agree with you in the "cross" forum... Grow up.

I guess that's the glory of having my Chiefs cup run over. I just don't care.

I thought before the draft that it was a terrible idea. I still, logically, think it's pretty dumb to expect a guy to come back from something like this when history says it won't happen.

And yet I don't care. We will be back in the AFC Championship game again with or without him.

I wasn't talking about you...no worries.

I'm generally OK with it, especially if the Chiefs did their due diligence on the knee.

Sometimes you have to take risks when you constantly draft at the end of the first. If we hit on Simmons, then it extends our super bowl window for the rest of Mahomes career.

That's a risk I'm willing to take.

Bingo. This isn't a binary situation where Simmons is either perfectly healthy or irreparably injured.

Simmons at 100% is a Pro Bowl or possible All-Pro caliber prospect. If Simmons only recovers to 80-90%, that is a starting caliber LT prospect. Wouldn't we take that at 31 and have years of cost-controlled steady play there? I think so.

And you can call this BS, biased hyperbole, whatever… but Ryan Day swears that Simmons would have been the best offensive tackle in the country next year if he had returned to Ohio State.

Day also has intimate knowledge of Simmons’ injury/recovery… doesn’t sound like he thinks it will be a long term issue.

If he'd never have been injured I think he would have (or should have) been the 1st Tackle taken. My concern is with the injury and not the player.

My worry is that he'll be very much like older Roaf - he's a beast that will have to deal with flare ups and sit weeks or months throughout his career.

Three of the most intelligent, rational, logical posters this board has to offer:

I don't like the pick and here is the data showing why this is a bad idea.

ChiefsPlanet:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/pr...dkidLNCAPM33ZD

History seems to be on a case-by-case basis, here is Correll Buckhalter running for 113 on us and 26 in the air four years after his "second" patellar tendon tear.

https://www.denverpost.com/2009/12/0...in-buckhalter/

https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=1864138

If he recovers to 90% he's out of the league before his rookie contract is over.

How do you guys continue to miss this fact?

Guys that are 90% healthy aren't 90% as good. The NFL doesn't start at zero. It STARTS at the 90th percentile. There's a decade long selection filter that ensures that guys who are 90% as good as the guys who actually make it in the league don't even get a SHOT.

This is just wrong. Absolutely and completely wrong.

90% of Aaron Donald MIGHT be an NFL football player. 90% of Trent Williams probably is.

90% of some rookie is....a UDFA.

It's just silly.

Alright.
So, what is your solution? Stay put and hope for something better next year?

The reality is there was no reasonable solution in the draft this year. Admit to that and adapt. The only option was to overpay a FA or trade for someone.

We didn't. We signed a guy who's only been a b/u we hope can become a dependable starter. We repeated the same actions of drafting a guy who's a longshot to work out once again. He only fell to us because every other NFL team felt he was too risky to take in the 1st round.

I stated this after the SB and I'll say it again - pay what it costs to get a legit LT. If that's two firsts and two thirds that's the cost. No cutting corners, no long shots, just do it. Bite the bullet, move up for a top prospect, take the highest possible odds of it working.

I don't disagree with the need to solve the LT problem - I agree. In fact I'm willing to sacrifice more to fix it. A guy who might not play at all this year does not fix the problem. A guy who might play 2 years and be done does not fix the problem.

I would not have traded for Tunsil. I would not have signed the LT we did. I would not have spent a draft pick on a LT.

I would have done ALL these things to guarantee the problem is fixed. I would have, absolutely, overcompensated because the need is that great.

Veache nailed this the more I sit back and evaluate how he went about adressing the LT situation. Immediately upgraded the position in free agency with the Moore signing, while not capstrapping the team longterm. Drafted his future replacement in what was considered the best LT prospect in the draft.

Most football experts hailed the pick as an A+. Few even brought up the medical concerns. Which are there. But, this needed to be done. You have to swing and be bold in this league. Not stay dormant and hope for the best.

To what?

LT?

Play the guy we just committed at least 1/$22 million to and who's just entering the prime of his career.

Guy's essentially holding the same deal that Trey Smith is right now and we have folks acting like he's just some break glass in case of emergency option that we needed to be looking to layer before he even shows up for a voluntary minicamp.

At RT in 2026? Kingsley, Morris and/or someone we get and groom through the middle rounds this year.

Because ultimately I don't think it's a realistic ask to expect Simmons to start this season.

As mentioned here before the one thing I really do think gives me hope about this:



whoever said there have been medical advancements is right. Basing all our percentages on whether he can recover and then listing some guys from 20 years ago ignores the medical advancements completely.

Is this copium? A little.

Either the Chiefs just fixed their left tackle for a decade or flushed their first rounder down the toilet.

I'd have been much happier with Luther Burden but I do acknowledge that I'm not sure how else to fix left tackle without getting real lucky. It's the price of drafting in the 30s every year

My God, we’re still doing this armchair GM shit? Stick to your simulators and STFU, nerd.

Drink antifreeze, new guy

Real Vernon Gholston energy

Ok. What about next year? How do you go about acquiring e LT, picking at the bottom of the standings? It's a cycle. You are not getting an elite level LT without moving up to the Top 10, and selling the farm in the process.

This was a rare situation of an elite talent becoming available and you take that chance.

Moore is a trainwreck at RT. That’s the last thing we need.

Jaylon Moore is 27 years old. Why do we need to be 'drafting his replacement' right now?

Cap issues?

What do you think it's gonna cost to keep George Karlaftis? To keep Rashee Rice? To replace Chris Jones in free agency?

Because the 1st rounder could've been used to address ANY of those positions.

So the reason you be looking to replace Moore in 2027 wouldn't be financial -- the opportunity cost of the pick makes that a 1 for 1 exchanged. It would be talent. If Moore is even an average NFL LT, the correct response is to extend him, not walk away from him.

So I ask again, are we really treating a guy who will cost us 1 year, $22 million if we walk away from him after this season or $30 million total if we keep him for 2, like he's some erratic scrub?

Because if that's the case, the mistake Veach made wasn't on the first day of the draft. It was the first day of free agency.

Mark Sanchez had obvious Melanoma on his face and it didn't stop yall from pounding the table...plus he ****ing sucked

I just literally described it in the post above. This isn't ignorance - it's malice. I just stated to trade whatever it takes to move up and get one.

You do that by moving up and getting one.

IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH IT COSTS - YOU SEND 4 DRAFT PICKS IF THAT IS THE COST OR YOU SEND 20.

That is how you get a franchise LT OR QB - You either suck balls and get pick 8 or you move up and pay the cost to move up and pick at 8.

Quit being ****ing cheap, pay what it costs to get the best LT option out there, and make it happen. Don't play dice, don't buy 3 lottery tickets, don't take 4 fliers with a 7th round pick.

TRADE UP AND GET THE BEST OPTION. If that costs 3 first round picks to protect Mahomes you do it.

It seems like Chiefsplanet is the only place on earth where anybody is deeply concerned about the knee. It gets mentioned elsewhere, but people talk about it like it was a torn ACL or something and move right on.

Sure. But can we also acknowledge the team has the actual medicals on Simmons, it's really a relatively small sample size of data, and not declare the pick a waste and Veach ****ing dumb until we actually see how Simmons is faring going into camp and the season.

So should we just not say ANYTHING prior to the draft?

Because that's the thing -- the folks that said this pick is a waste and this was a dumb decision said it BEFORE the draft.

Nobody was sitting on their hands here and then flying off the top rope when the pick was made. We said it before and then it happened. Are people surprised that we say it now?

In some way chagrined that we're wasting Austin's bandwidth? CD Fixed his Shit. We can post without fear now.

It's always strange to me when folks get riled about about someone who didn't like the prospect of a specific pick being made not liking said pick AFTER it was made.

All that happened is that we removed the 'if'.

Everyone knows our medical staff evaluated the guy. No one is arguing they didn't.

Why is it that every other medical staff seems to have passed but us? Why is it that all other teams needing a LT passed but us?

What science and earth shattering medical instrumentation do you believe this team has access to that no other team has access to?

I kind of doubt talking heads who said Simmons is a top five talent but was "dinged for an injury" have really spent a lot of time digging into the precise kind of injury and the history related to it like people here have.

It's a legitimate concern. It's a huge gamble. Just because Yahoo gives the Chiefs an A for this pick doesn't mean everything's kosher. We have a lot of "we'll see" ahead of us

If you do that, you better make sure you are drafting an All Pro calibre tackle or else you end up with another Evan Neal situation.

But even then, there are no guarantees teams are willing to trade back with the Chiefs. Veach spoke of this last season in how hard it was to find a trade partner. Maybe teams are not willing to do what you are suggesting. Hoard bottom round picks while giving Chiefs an elite LT.

good way to gut your team.

This is silly and unrealistic.

Even with a good medical check off, it's still a major gamble. Not many teams can afford to roll the dice like that.

Well, the other teams that needed a tackle had multiple options without any sort of red flags in an extremely deep class. That could be a big part of the reason. Not all 31 other teams were looking for a LT. Add in the reported character concerns, and it’s easy to see why he fell.

Had this been a weak class, I bet he goes a lot higher.

Welcome to the NFL.

If you think there's ANY move you can make that doesn't carry risk, you are sadly mistaken.

This!! Let’s just for sake of the argument say Simmons never plays a snap as for us. But we hit on a 3rd round pick. It evens itself out, and that’s the best you should hope for in a draft where nothing is guaranteed.

Jason Dunn on his podcast said that he saw a few guys come back from the patellar injury, one was Rodney Peete who he said came back the next year and was able to move around no problem, and that was with surgery techniques from 30 years ago

Tons of people wanted Conerly (not me) and the fact that Washington took him and said he's gonna be a guard should tell you all you need to know. I would hate that pick more than Simmons for sure.

Same group of cowards who were bitching all year long while we went 17-3 LMAO

Link?

Edit:

It appears this is false:

And adding the additional risk that the player may never play or have a 2 year career on top of it is an idiot risk.

If you ask why I think it's risky I can give you the names of 10 players who's careers were ended by this injury. You can not give me a name of anyone who played longer than 7 years after it. It's THAT big of a risk.

KC is not saying it's not a risk - they know it and picked him anyway due to his upside if he somehow beats the odds. Saying "he's fine right now and looks ready" is avoiding the obvious - this injury leads to constant lifelong flare ups.

Odd way to view opportunity cost...

What if Donovan Ezeiruaku provides a perfect complementary pass rusher for Karlaftis for the next half decade after Simmons never plays for us?

What if Burden becomes a 1,200 yard receiver?

What if Revel becomes a shut down corner or Amos a turnkey replacement for Watson so we don't have to go into FA next season to replace him?

What if those things happen AND we hit on that 3rd round pick you mentioned?

Like...are you really just blowing past the opportunity lost if "Simmons never plays a down for us..."?

And I'm supposed to look at that and be at ease?

I don't really care how you behave. Just odd to me we have folks declaring this as a complete waste and Veach as a reerun before he even has a chance to suit up and try to play.

Not liking the pick is one thing. I don't, at all. Would've rather made the jump into the late 20s once Conerly slid that far if they'd decided on LT or bust.

But man, it sure seems like some of you have already decided his career is ****ed and aren't even willing to consider the alternative.

The odds of it being a complete waste are higher than the odds of it working. That's the problem.

I mean he'd be competing with Tunsil at LT who they traded for and are paying so I'd question if Guard is his permanent spot. So probably more likely pushing Wylie

This was a great draft pick and the naysayers can eat a dick

On a completely unrelated note, you’re a little cuck bitch Clay

Well, good thing we signed the free agent LT that we targeted then. Sorry you don't like him either.

In February, we had zero left tackles on our roster. Now we have two. Bitch about it if you must, but I'm fine with it.

That's a good problem to have.

Not Wylie, he kinda' sucks.

The eagles drafted the guy before us, Campbell, who had torn labrum surgery last month, which for a linebacker is a major medical concern that can hamper your tackling ability.

Wylie blows goats.

Right, I was questioning the comment that he was drafted to play Guard

Rodney Peete blew out his patella in 1996, lost his starting job, struggled to stick as a backup anywhere for several years, spent a year out of the league and then spent a season as the worst starting QB in the NFL because the Panthers gave up on Chris Wienke.

I'm...not sure that's a win.

"I think what's cool about our team and our program and how DQ [Dan Quinn] coaches, is, it's competition," Peters told reporters after the pick. "You know, iron sharpens iron. I'll leave these up to the coaches, [but the] only one I can say is LT [Laremy Tunsil] is going to be at LT [left tackle], and then the rest of them, they'll compete for the rest of the spots, I think. But to answer your question more specifically, he [Conerly Jr.] can play guard and he can play tackle."

Completely false re: me, dude.

It’s hard watching Sam LaPorta play bc we took Felix and he would have been so ****ing good in this offense.

Also don’t look at who we picked the pick before Trey McBride was drafted.

That’s the draft though

Yea, that's not the same thing as coming out and saying he's going to play G.

We still have the same two guys we called LT's last year. Yeah, they sucked, but we called them LT's.

I'm not high on the FA we signed but he should be out there competing. He's got a shot. He's not as of right now a risk to never play again so whatever I think of him he's got that going for him.

I'm disappointed that we didn't do enough and not that we did something. I'd prefer to waste draft picks and cap room before exposing Mahomes to injury. Waiting and taking Smith way later was a smart move because it was low risk and high reward. Spending a 1st is high cost and high risk.

And I disagree with that one as well. I'm glad we didn't do that.

I am going to go with 3x SB champ Veach's analysis and the team trainers/physicians, and Jason Dunn who played for the Chiefs personal experiences over sofa GM's on a messageboard

Can't say I'm in love with the pick, but with the way the board fell, I can't say I have too much of an argument against it. Sounds like the recovery is going well, seemed to be moving well at his Pro Day, and the Chiefs seem to be pretty comfortable with it. Ideally, Simmons would redshirt this year, work on getting fully healthy and adding more functional strength for 2026.

Simmons is an athletic freak for his size. Even if he's never back to 100% of what he was before the injury, it should be more than enough to be a successful LT at the NFL level.

Can't add anything new to whats already been said

But its my belief that this was a gamble that simply HAD to be taken

Didn't think they'd actually do it with Moore, Suamataia, and maybe even Humphries in the mix... but all of those guys come with their own risks, and when you're always shopping at the end of the first round, you HAVE to take another risk when you get the chance to add a potential 10 year starter at the second most important position

Now gimme an edge, rb, and dt in that order tonight

The risk/reward ratio is too good to pass up

Wut?

It's not me deciding it.

It's me looking at the historical data and going, "Oh, that sucks." And the deeper and harder you look, the more it sucks. And you start to see the most likely outcomes.

If you're laying odds on the likely outcome, it's a coin flip that he ever actually plays again after this injury.

The odds that he gets back to what he was are 1/5, and that's being generous.

I'll be nervous about it until we see a reason to stop being nervous about it. I will hope that reason materializes.

It would be super cool to have heard more about how they cleared him medically. Tests they did that convinced them full function would be regained. Anyone heard anything in that realm?

And most of the time he'll be right.

If he drinks antifreeze and says "Tasty" does that also mean it must be a good decision and you'll defend that as well? Or is it possible that the best of us do dumb shit sometimes?

I'd have just led off with that.

It makes a lot more sense than "Hey guys, what if he's Rodney Peete!?!?!"

I appreciate that you tried to provide some insight of your own. I'd also suggest you not do that anymore.

You tried. I'm proud of you.

Only thing I heard is Simmons say the Chiefs did the most work on him relative to the rest of the league. What that actually entailed and why they decided it meant his career isn't already effectively over I have no clue. Just hope they're right.

But you're on a message board. Just give YOUR opinions. Who cares if they align with Veach or not? Who cares if you end up right or wrong?

I'll never understand the appeal to authority on sports boards. Mahomes is the best QB ever, when he makes a stupid play, you're allowed to call it out. Or Reid making a bad call. Why doesn't the same apply to Veach?

We won’t know if it’s a bad Veach call for a few years. A high risk certainly. But every draft pick is a risk of some sort.

I love how CP'ers pretend to know more about the medical history of a player than the doctors themselves...

Plus Andy says he'll be ready to start when the season begins...

100%. Which is why both sides can be valid. He can turn out to be great based on his potential before the injury. Or he could either never play again or be a very diminished version of himself. I don't know why people are mad about acknowledging the latter. Or be mad that people wanted someone who would contribute all 5 years of his 1st round rookie deal.

Why do you ignore the doctors of the other teams though?

Funny enough - and something nobody's even started to talk about much -- is something we did discuss in the draft forum.

His pass blocking reps are...fine. The 2023 tape is just a solid pass blocker.

Then in 2024 a lot of what we saw from him was run blocking against pretty lousy opposition. You saw the athleticism in those reps when he was out in space blocking in the run game. I think that's where a ton of people are getting the raves about his athleticism; in open space he's really good.

But that doesn't really answer where he got to as compared to his 2023 tape as a pass blocker against advanced pass rushers. And every player he'll face in the NFL is going to be 'advanced' on a college scale.

And before you blow past that, Evan Neal is a guy I think of here. Evan Neal was a crazy good athlete, especially for his size. And a lot of that WAS projection -- how does that dancing bear stuff he did while abusing outmatched dudes at Alabama translate?

Well the answer has been....it hasn't. At all.

Now over time we've seen him develop to the point that he actually uses all that athleticism and power in the same way he used it at Alabama -- to dominate in the run game. But he's never advanced a lick as a pass blocker.

That remains a completely open question with Simmons. Because we just never saw it in 2024 against advanced rushers. That's yet another issue created by the injury -- the unknown it creates isn't just in his rehab. It makes it really difficult to establish even a baseline for how he's advanced from 2023 into 2024 as a pass blocker.

The 2023 version wasn't a 1st round pick, especially not for a pass-first team. And the 2024 version is just so reliant on projection because we never saw him go against high quality college rushers.

They want to believe it's true - they don't actually believe it's true.