Yeah, that trade was nothing if Beach got the guy he liked. It should also be noted that we have more players than spots at this point and Bert continues to add nice looking guys as USFAs. We're sitting in a pretty good spot currently.

True but at WR we're going to cross our fingers a couple of these guys workout because it's a position of unknowns.

Actually, why not? I mean, we're all pretty excited about the potential of Rice, are we not? He has the physical attributes and abilities/talent that make us think he could be a legit WR2 at the least, right?

Then why can't I believe he should perform at that level and be a 1,200 yard WR? I don't think he will this season, and it might take a couple seasons before he's all the way there, but why shouldn't I expect at least that much, unless he's really just another middling player we probably shouldn't have drafted with that pick?

Again, i don't have that expectation in 2023, but I do by 2025. Is that not realistic?

That's fine...this year is time for Skyy Moore to do something...

8 WRs went over 1,200 yards receiving last season.

Yeah - 'expecting' top 10 WR production from a 2nd rounder at any point in his contract is too much.

Again - about half of all 2nd round picks become starters by the 3rd year of their deal. Do I think that's a reasonable expectation? It's a reasonable goal, for sure. Expectation? Well again, as many as not fail.

Same problem that always surfaces with Hardman. Hardman was fine for where he was drafted but the 'expectation' was a superstar. That's not who you get outside of the top 50, fellas.

I just wanted him to be a competent starter and all he ever really was, was a gadget guy that returned kicks.

I think Moore, Toney, and Watson are all going to get more targets this season, probably Gray as well.

Which, honestly, is exactly what we needed in this offense.

2022- 7 receivers + Kelce reached 1200 yards
2021- 7 receivers + Andrews reached 1200 yards
2022- 8 receivers + Kelce reached 1200 yards

1200 yards are WR1 numbers; if Rice sniffs anywhere close to 1000 yards I think that is a successful draft pick.

Sure, okay. But what if Skyy doesn't make a huge leap in 2023? Then what? We hope that Justyn Ross is a unicorn and exceeds all reasonable expectations? Certainly John Ross won't. We just pin our hopes on Richie James then? ISM? Fryfogle? Ealy?

Watson and Gray are jags, competent backups that can have small roles and play specials.

Skyy Moore needs to be a legit contributor on offense, coming out I thought his comp was Golden Tate, who also did next to nothing his rookie year, lets hope I'm right on this one.

John Ross, Fryfogle, Ealy etc aren't making the team..Justyn Ross is a longshot..

If Moore doesn't take a step forward Justin Watson is going to be playing a lot and you pray Rice is ready to go right away.

Then Rice is gonna have a hell of an opportunity in front of him.

People need to stop throwing out Justyn Ross, he's a long shot to make the team.

Richie James is a Hardman replacement. He's not as fast but he's a better route runner and knows how to play the slot.

Travis is 34. He probably doesn't have that many 1,200 yard seasons left in him. Someone better start performing like they're going to take up some of that slack. And as his production starts to wane, probably we're going to need one of Toney/Skyy/Rice to become that go-to guy. I doubt it'll be one of the other WRs currently on our roster.

But yeah, 1,000 yards by the end of the 2024 season would be great and a big step in the right direction.

Well, he will if Andy gives him that opportunity in 2023, which he might not. But eventually I think Andy will. Just a matter of when.

100%

Honestly, this guy is going to provide at least a little bit of what DHop can do, at a fraction of the price. I really think he's going to be good, it's just a matter of time.

I was thinking the same thing. That catch-and-roll move was very Kelce-like. Not only do you get extra YAC with that but it protects the receiver from taking some serious punishment when they are most defenseless. Nice to see in a rookie.

I know jack and shit about playing professional football, but I have to think sticking Moore out there as a punt returner, which he had no business doing, ****ed with his confidence and the rest of his game for much of the season. He was busting his ass just to get on the field as a WR, and then Toub sends him out there to make himself look like a reerun...several times. That's a shitty spot to put a rookie in.

Hey, I'm literally just reading the list of names off the ESPN website of the Chiefs current depth chart. Don't shoot the messenger.






P.S. Okay, to be completely honest i threw in Fryfogle because his name makes me chuckle. But the others were basically in order.

The WR room most likely will look like this..

MVS
Toney
Moore
Rice
James
Watson

it's hard for me to see them keeping 7 but if Ross just absolutely balls out he may be kept. But honestly I think they'd like to put Justyn on the PS for a year and go from there.

Yep.

He should have never been a punt returner. And he's admitted since the Super Bowl TD that it took most of the season to get his confidence back.

For all the bitching about Spags and the defense, it's Toub that really needs reined in.

So much so it certainly looks like they drafted at least 1 guy specifically for him.

Makes perfect sense why they drafted Rice. Lot of people are up in arms that they didn’t draft Mims, Downs or Hyatt.

They have those guys on the roster. Toney is a speed option that can go deep and do gadget role, MVS is the speed option to break the field open and draw coverage. Hell they have John Ross as inventory at this point. They could keep him on the PS in the event of an injury.

That was covered.

And I like Downs but his comp was literally Toney, who we have.

They were clearly looking for a bigger WR, likely to replace Juju

Moore's last punt return did wonders for his confidence. But yeah, lets move on!

Right.

Because they found out last year that a younger, healthier version of JJSS has a really good shot in this "new" offense.

I don't believe Andy is goiing to stunt his opportunities. I believe he has to prove he deserves them, but so does Moore.

Andy is going to do what he always does, which is try to put his players in the best spots to succeed. The other side of that is, he's not going to put them in spots where he thinks they might struggle.

So, just as an example, rookie/new WRs don't usually stay on the field whenever KC goes hurry-up or two-minute offense. Especially for about the first half of the season.

Historically, we know he works them into the offense a few snaps at a time and gradually builds up their snap counts over the course of the season. But they have to show significant improvement/growth before he leaves them out there in those two types of situations.

Which is why I'm not expecting Rice to just leapfrog everyone, especially WRs that have been here for at least a season. He has a lot of catching up to do. And ideally Toney will stay healthy, so Rice should be kind of buried in the depth chart.

But if Toney doesn't stay healthy, and if Skyy struggles, then Rice will probably get an opportunity to get a significant rise in snaps.

Maybe. If he absorbs the playbook and shows out in practice to a level that Andy think is acceptable.

Otherwise, he'll see about the same number of snaps/targets that Skyy did last season (3tgts/gm), and he'll be on the sidelines for most two-minute drills/hurry-up scenarios.

Which will be normal for a Chiefs rook.

It's in here, I'll look up where


21:30


really this whole thing is worth listening to though. Quote is at 25:00

I'd appreciate it!

It scares the crap out of me that the greatest QB I've ever seen in mahomes is getting a wr with the last name Rice...

It's starting to set in the chiefs ar going to be like the 80s 49ers dynasty or better...

Mahomes in an Andy Reid offense is going to get 4000 yards in his sleep throwing to the ChiefsPlanet 4.5 club. For Mahomes, 4500 is an average year. We won’t have any problem with the WR position. We just don’t know which guys are going to catch how many yards, but overall it’s hard to imagine the outcome that some of you are conjuring where Kelce struggles to top 800 and everyone else is under 500.

My genuine question on this is whether it really is mathematically impossible. There are, I think, plenty of guys over the years who've had better 10 and 20 splits than 40s, relative to others. Watching him he does look quicker off the line than deep, I know the PFF guys think he slows down deliberately to reinitiate contact but I dunno. Seems plausible but he might also just be a high 4.4 guy.

I think you look at his 10 and his 20 and then you say okay well if that 40 is accurate he would have to really hit the wall in the last 20 and you watch his 40 and that doesn't happen and you say okay this math doesn't add up.

Yeah I get it, and maybe it's just that, I can definitely see a 4.4 something guy above a 4.5 one. I'm just not sure it's going to be that far off looking at his tape. I know some guys saw good long speed but I didn't if I'm honest. I don't think that's his game. Next year is when we go back to the well on speed when teams adapt this year to the shorter stuff.

Interesting.

I was chatting him up with someone in the draft forum probably a month or so ago and made a specific note to say that I was really surprised by that 40 time because it just didn't match up with what I thought I saw from him.

He played faster than that.

Well - maybe his time was off?

yeah - this is my favorite pick of the draft. I went into that last week of the pre-draft process and literally said at one point "Man, i don't really care who they take in the 1st - I just really want Rice in the 2nd..."

I think he's gonna be awfully good. Not a superstar, just a damn steady player for a long time.

If you add the "Mahomes multiplier" here I think we end up in a really good spot with him. If he's Aiyuk light, that plays all the way to the bank.

Think this was me perhaps? I saw him as slower than you thought. That said, like Duncan I thought I was watching quite a different player dependent on what year I was watching. His earlier tape seemed to show more separation, imo. Maybe it's the toe, the usage, the opposition, or my eyes are s***t. Probably the latter.

I don't quite see the comp, but this would be a great outcome no doubt. I liked him, I couldn't quite put my finger on it because there was lots when watching him I wasn't sure of, but there's something there.

Yeah, pretty sure it was.

And ultimately the stopwatch did make me question what I was seeing a bit. But in the end it was the physicality and body control. And he was just so good in space.

I just think he's perfect for the X role here. And maybe next year we're aggressive in trying to address the Z w/ Moore eventually being used primarily as a Y out of the slot. The timelines work, especially if you continue to commit to backfilling the position w/ 1st or 2nd day picks.

I'm thinking they see Toney in that Z role.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">HOF QB Peyton Manning had high praise for Chiefs receiver Rashee Rice.<br><br>“He’s the perfect receiver. He has speed, hands, incredible route running, can find the soft spot in zone. He’s the type of player that’s a QB’s best friend.” <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a> <a href="https://t.co/hdCBeanrbf">pic.twitter.com/hdCBeanrbf</a></p>&mdash; Chris (@chiefs_outsider) <a href="https://twitter.com/chiefs_outsider/status/1655251660082479109?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 7, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

ESPN was giving him quite a bit of love after the rookie mini camp.

Yeah, I think he's just a great fit for KC. I see Brandon Aiyuk. Ultimate, maxed out upside is Stafon Diggs.

Nate Taylor basically said Rice was the only guy at rookie mini camp who really flashed. Said he looked exactly the part.

Well to be fair lineman don't do much without pads and FAU isn't doing anything cause of thumb surgery.

Gotta stay on the field.

But yeah, he has the talent for it and he'll never have a better opportunity to seize that kind of role/target share.

Slowly but surely, y'all will come around...

It wasn't a knock on anyone else. It's rookie freaking mini-camp.

But it's always nice when the early pick whom you'd hope would stand out does just that because we're gonna need his production.

We might. We might not.

If Toney is healthy, MVS finds more chemistry with Pat, Moore takes a step forward and James just stays who he is, that's a solid 4-deep WR corps and combined with Kelce can support a 5k yard season.

Time will tell...

I don't believe in a world where things go that smoothly and I'm super excited to give Mahomes a guy with Rice's skillset to play with.

But yes, it will be interesting.

MVS is MVS he never developed any chemistry with Rodgers either, he just is who he is.

Wut? He developed some pretty damn fast during the AFC Championship when we really needed a WR to step up and Mahomes pointed right at him for facilitating one of the downfield bombs that ended up being key.

He's extremely inconsistent though...like you'll throw that out and then he cost us a big play in the SB by turning the wrong way on a pass.

A steady, long term, productive player for the Chiefs will inevitably be a superstar.

That right there is why Rodgers never did develop a rapport with him. Because he'll hold one mistake over his head in perpetuity. Mahomes is the opposite, and let's not single out MVS as the only guy. Guys like Hardman and Hill ****ed up plenty of times, and Mahomes/Reid make it a point to get their confidence back up, not abandon them at the first sign of trouble.

Sorry, but that's just not the case.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...V/ValdMa00.htm

That's MVS' career stats both at GB and with KC. Receptions/game (2.1/2.5), yards/game (36.5/40.4), yards/tgt (8.7yds/8.5yds) and catch rate (49.8%/51.9%) are all pretty much the same.

MVS is what he is. he might have a little bump statistically this season because Andy is Andy and Mahomes is Mahomes, but MVS wasn't held back by Rodgers.

The only metric that probably will show a significant bump is going to be 1st downs (20.5/32), but that's more of an Andy's offensive scheme vs. LaFleur's than anything else.

At the end of the day, MVS is going to catch about half the balls thrown at him, for about 40 yds/game, for an average of about 16+yds/cth.

Looked like he had some chemistry in the win against CIN.

He's more deserving than a dozen guys in the Ring of Honor on the basis of that game alone.

Guy's performance made the Super Bowl possible. Without him stepping up the way he did, we're 2 fancy trophies poorer.

He should never buy a drink in this town again.

It's one game, he'd do that in GB also where he'd have a big game then just go back to being MVS for 6 weeks.

At this point the dude is who he is.

In this offense, that's fine. Pat has repeatedly said it will be a different guy each week. Not sure why we shouldn't believe him.

I'm genuinely curious as to why you are such an ardent defender of Aaron Rodgers. Every issue that has been brought up regarding him you seem to believe him to be faultless in any of it. It's kind of odd that all this negativity surrounds him if none of it is generated by him don't you think?

100%, and some people in here don’t give him the credit he deserves for that. We wouldn’t have made it to the SB without MVS playing his ass off vs the Bengals.

30 min career highlight reel:

https://youtu.be/K7YPD7rQge0

This guy clearly looks a little faster before the injury.

Who has Rogers tried to develop chemistry with in the past 5 years?

Hard to do when he did as little as possible to be with the team.

Bro Rodgers goes to bat for his guys, how do you think Allen Lazard and Randall Cobb are in NY now?

You say go to bat.

I say he’s lazy in the off-season and doesn’t want to spend time building chemistry with new receivers.

He was lazy after he decided that **** that GM.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The calm b4 the storm. <a href="https://t.co/IchmLyD2sm">pic.twitter.com/IchmLyD2sm</a></p>&mdash; Kansas City Chiefs (@Chiefs) <a href="https://twitter.com/Chiefs/status/1660812138410295297?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 23, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Hmm. You mean besides MVS and CW?

Speaking of Rodgers and his receivers:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mahomes is an Alien Part 347:<br><br>Aaron Rodgers lost Davante Adams and went from 1st in EPA to 20th.<br><br>Patrick Mahomes lost Tyreek Hill and went from 3rd in EPA to 1st.</p>&mdash; Adam Best (@Arrowhead_Adam) <a href="https://twitter.com/Arrowhead_Adam/status/1660409273803845632?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 21, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Some of these stats just make me laugh.

You'll never convince me Mahomes isn't the GOAT, even if he has less rings than Brady.

Agreed, IMO Brady was never the best QB in the league at any point in his career.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Expected to be joined by Chiefs rookie WR <a href="https://twitter.com/RiceRashee11?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@RiceRashee11</a> in the 1:00 hour today on <a href="https://twitter.com/610SportsKC?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@610SportsKC</a>. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a> <a href="https://t.co/JOlVkdc1st">pic.twitter.com/JOlVkdc1st</a></p>&mdash; Alex Gold (@AlexGold) <a href="https://twitter.com/AlexGold/status/1661015737610436610?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 23, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



Rice on 610 this morning

Somewhat misleading, in that Mahomes' number 1 receiver wasn't Tyreek, it was Travis. Take Kelce away, and Mahomes might not do as well. I doubt he'd have as large a drop-off as what happened with Rodgers, but Pat also has other advantages that Rodgers didn't have last season. Like Andy. And youth.

I'd say it was never undisputed, but from about 2010 through 2017, he was pretty much a goddamn monster. I've mentioned it before, but Rodgers seemingly always gets a pass for the times he came up small in that stretch despite being in his prime and having a ton of weapons around him.

Manning was post neck-surgery and mostly a shell of himself. Brees, a guy I am simply in awe of from a precision standpoint, also shit the bed a ton of times in the post-season.

There's not a passer in the league I'd have rather had over that timeframe than Tom Brady. And that's no small stretch, either. Honestly, Bernard Pollard doesn't happen, you could probably roll that all the way back to 2007 and say that for a solid decade he was the best QB out there.

I'm disinclined to dump on Brady in order to prop up Mahomes. That's the kind of shit KCC has to do to boost his false idol, LeBron James. It's born of insecurity and doubt. It's why Patriot fans hate Mahomes and Kelce as much as they do - they know those dudes are comin' for them.

You judge greatness by its graveyard and the greater the bodies you can bury, the better you are. Tom Brady was undeniably great and someday Mahomes will be right there alongside him and eventually beyond him. I don't need to diminish Brady for that to be the case.

I'm not trying to diminish him to prop up Mahomes, I honestly feel that he's vastly overrated. He was a middling QB that stumbled into the perfect situation as far as his defenses, running games, and playing in an incredibly weak division for 2 decades.

Even in the games where he faced Mahomes, Brady won in spite of himself (thanks Dee Ford), or because of his defense.

But it's not like this hasn't been debated into the ground already.

Also LeBron isn't qualified to carry Jordan's jock. Carry on. Lol

It's not misleading at all, though. It's factual. We know he still had Kelce, as Rodgers still had other players as well.

This was likely referencing the narrative of how losing these players would impact A Aron and Pat, respectively (in case you don't recall the narrative surrounding the loss of Tyreek last offseason...)

My point is that while it's true that Rodgers struggled without Adams and Pat didn't struggle nearly as much without Tyreek, the truth is that Tyreek was never Pat's actual 1. Travis was.

Meanwhile, Rodgers true 1 was in fact D. Adams. Adams=Travis. Not Adams=Tyreek.


to make it more apples to apples, Pat would have to play a season without Travis, not Tyreek.