He’s not good, but he doesn’t suck either.

He’s average, which is nice on a rookie contract, but with his height and the amount of flags he draws, he’s not going to be worth what he gets on the open market.

The guys played on an island all year essentially as our #1 corner. He was targeted more than anybody in the league because of that along with the fact that teams threw the ball a ton against us (not to mention we played some damn good offenses and QB’s). It was also his first year playing outside in the NFL. We were asking way too much of him. He’s not that guy. He could’ve been a solid #2 this year with more talent around him.

It’s easy to only remember the bad, but there was more good in there than most of you believe or care to admit. If there weren’t that completion % and QBR when thrown at would be MUCH worse. The way CP talks about him his PFF grade would be terrible. I’ve said it before but if you are constantly getting beat your PFF grade will reflect that. Was he as good as his grade would lead you to believe? No, of course not. It’s somewhere in between where I’ve been pointing at all along.

If we want to keep Houston it won't be hard to restructure and save a shitload of money. Chiefs have all the leverage assuming theyre confident he fits into spagnuolos long term plans.

Houston may not want to go through a scheme change or take less money...he could still get a nice contract on the open market, just remember that.

More power to him.

9.5 sacks isn't worth $21 million.

According to that article that was recently posted we can cut him and save 9 mil in cap space, right?

Well, the Chiefs have leverage because Houston also knows the Chiefs can cut him any time they want now. Houston would gladly renegotiate an extension even if it's much cheaper than his current deal. But yes, assuming he wants to play in a 4-3.

I don't think either side really has leverage over the other. The Chiefs save a lot by cutting him, but he could still get plenty and still play for a contender like the Texans or Packers who both could use Houston.

We traded down 8 years.

Not sure if Spags is young enough for today's defensive tasks and offensive schemes

nah, man. He's a decent 4th corner, with a ceiling of a mediocre 3rd/slot guy.

They’re pretty well screwed on that end as far as I can tell. If Berry has heel surgery, he won’t be able to pass a physical by March when a huge chunk of his salary becomes guaranteed.

But that couldn't happen unless the Chiefs cut him. And his open market value is way cheaper than his current contract. So if all the Chiefs have to do is outbid his market value, they still save a lot on the overall contract (if he wants to stay, he'll take a hometown discount). All while saving a shitload in year 1. Houston's at an age where I'm sure he'd rather get a guaranteed contract he can play out until retirement. I'm sure before we hit that point the Chiefs will plan to either renegotiate his current deal or just let him loose. I don't see them paying him full price if they're confident he's in their long term plans.

asking a serious question-
Isn't this a non-football injury and therefore that guarantee is null and void?

Yeah, but the kicker is we pay a LOT of dead money. But I guess if we're not sure he's going to even play, then we're paying "dead money" anyway.

Lol ok.

He’s about to get paid like a #2 corner, but he’s a backup in league just full of good corners. Gotcha.

Nelson is really the victim of being targeted so much. He had a good stop rate, but because he was targeted so damn much the cameras also caught him giving up catches a lot.

He's an average player that sometimes has a total breakdown for one reason or another. I think they got their value from him at that draft slot and I'd probably leave it at that with him and let him sign a big deal somewhere else.

His cap figure is where it's at today in large because of restructures into a bonus and kicking his can down the road. Looking at OTC right now, he has a base of 15.2 for 2019 and I think he wouldn't struggle to match that in an open market where all the top edge guys aren't on it.

He would definitely get a figure way North of what his base would be if the Chiefs were to cut his salary enough to have a comfortable cap charge this season. That's without beginning to even factor in, what if he doesn't translate well in the change? A down year and flipping over to the wrong side of 30 would be a crusher when the Chiefs release him next year, which would be a total lock in any situation sans an extension.

I completely agree with this post.

That must make you a homer :)

well, I mean if you played him inside only in a primarily zone scheme so he's got everything in front of him, he might be okay. Don't ask him to turn and run with receivers.

He might get #2 money and play that position for someone but he ain't gonna light the league on fire.

I hate Eric Berry

Like, nobody is saying the dude is going to light the world on fire. At all.

He's not completely helpless and the FA class for guys that can play outside and play 16 games is very dire. Anyone who doesn't think he's at least getting 12m avg over multiple years and a starting job outside is kidding themselves.

Wow. No ****in' way I'd do that, but if you're right I'll stand corrected. Won't be the first time, but I think he's fairly lousy. I know the stats, I just don't see it. Like, do they factor in the PI calls into that?

Anyway, don't care, he's likely gone, and it'll be interesting to see where he lands and for how much.

The uncertainty of his fit in the 4-3 is definitely a wrench. The Chiefs may not want to extend him if they don't know his fit.

What's a fair comparison? aybe Jason Pierre-Paul or Calais Campbell? (Ryan Kerrigan / Clay Matthews in a 3-4). $60M players. So we ask Houston to take a $60M contract with a $15M bonus. Houston makes the same amount of money this year but now he's virtually guaranteed until retirement. We save money (potentially a lot in year 1). Win win.

What does she have to do with this? You think Reid is going to be here another 8 years?

What is the age of the DC of the top ten defenses in the NFL?

The downside is you possibly just locked yourself into a shitty deal that you could have escaped. The first time he goes down with an injury, CP would lose its ****ing mind.

No way you pay Houston for 4 more years. He's clearly lost a step and didn't seem to be super motivated until the last 1/4 of the season + playoffs.

I worry about Jones pulling a Houston or a Berry with injuries or slowdown. I'm not worried about Hill at all. Although obviously anything can happen.

Everyone is like - you can't pay Ford because he's a one hit wonder. Well Jones is too to some degree. I have a theory that some of these guys risk it and get on some performance enhancers before their contract year. But then they go back to just being good. Jones came in completely jacked this year. If he was always some super low bodyfat freak I wouldn't be as suspicious.

Not that I thought that about Berry or Houston - they were great from day 1. Which is the kind of person you pay. We just got super unlucky with them.

I’ll donate $50 to CP if a mod changes BleedingRed to BleedingVagina

Because I bring up valid points?

I bite the bullet on Houston this year and also tag Ford. If you are looking for cap space call Berry.

Yeah sure.....it's because of that. :rolleyes:

Sorry I’m not excited for a defensive rebuild?

I mean spare me “we have the personal” that’s TBD, like I said many times would have preferred any 3-4 coach

Valid point. A lot of highlights showed the Pats abusing him with the rush.

How ****ing stubborn are you gonna be about this?

The 3-4 and 4-3 under are extremely similar and yet the 4-3 under still puts our current personnel in a better position to do what each player does best. But even beyond that, they’re not even in the base defense for a huge chunk of the time. Holy ****, dude.

You act like they would have been better off keeping the exact same playbook that Sutton instituted and just changing the coach. It’s silly.

I’m not being stubborn I’m stating facts that 2 of your 3 top pass rushers are now question marks. Jesus

Nancy's real stubborn.

How do you figure? Houston’s job wouldn’t be all that different and Ford would actually get to do more of he is best at, rushing the passer.

There is only ONE question mark and that is Dee Ford. And that's up to Spags on if he wants him back. Houston could fit right in at SLB and do what he basically does right now.

because it doesn't fit her narrative.

On the topic of Spagnuolo’s defenses struggling in STL and his general struggles as a HC there period, how is that all that different than other coaches we’ve seen lately?

Some good DCs that I can think of off the top of my head that didn’t succeed as a HC: Romeo, Wilkes, Joseph, Rex (mostly).... and that’s just a few to name.

Are you saying you wouldn’t ever want those guys as a DC either? (For those who hate this hire)

So what about our cap situation. If Ford signs his tag we'll be around 15-20 mil. We can clear a ton of space in 2020 (Sammy, Hitchens, Berry, Houston).

We could probably offset most of our FA costs to 2020 and beyond (of course we have other contracts to sign).

What does everyone make of FA and who should we target? Who would Spag likely target?

DEs, especially if Ford ia gone

Sign one and draft one.

Hi Eric! When did you start posting here? I thought you were at the pro bowl?

Since your posts generally are complete shit and void of any actual substance.....are you assuming that I'm Eric Fisher because I stated that Dee Ford was the only question mark?

Maybe you should go back and follow the actual ****ing conversation that was happening.

You changed your screen name to "The Franchise". So I assume your Eric Fisher...

The rest of your post is your normal drivel....

I see you're still bringing the usual substance to this board........absolutely ****ing nothing.

Think 2 is enough? Guess we really won't know the full picture until we know where guys like Ford amd Houston end up, but if Ford is gone and Houston is the SLB we would probably need 3. Unless I'm missing someone, only Speaks and Kpassagnon would fit there and that's pretty dubious at best.

man. There are some real numbnuts bleeding vagina types that make things a whole lot less interesting than they could be.

Well if Houston is at DE....then just two. If you keep Houston at SLB....then add another DE to the needs list.

This is what we can pretty much infer as things stand now.
1 Tech- Nnadi/Williams
3 Tech- Jones/???
5 Tech- ???/???
WDE- Ford/???
SLB- Houston/???

Guys like Kpassagnon and Speaks are left to fill in the blanks. Man, I really don't see a way I'd be comfortable with letting either Ford or Houston go now. Swung back around to the tag and see what happens camp with Ford.

Speaks is your strongside DE.....it really doesn't matter what everyone's comfort level is at this point. I don't see any other position for him in this defense.

Kind of like Eric in the playoffs...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Packers hire Mike Smith as outside linebackers coach (No, not that one.) <a href="https://t.co/ICOpoq5lAs">https://t.co/ICOpoq5lAs</a></p>&mdash; ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) <a href="https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1088960314060783618?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 26, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Agreed. Only reason I didn't just put him there is maybe Kpassagnon can salvage what is left of his career and be solid there.

Trade them Ford, then.

Wut? I guess we're just gutting the coaching staff, then.

Imagine if everyone gets canned.....except Britt Reid. ROFL

Should’ve gone with Rex Ryan. He produced every single year. With two teams.

This guy has a very similar track record to Sutton. Both have had terrible results when they didn’t have exceptional talent.

If nothing else, this hire has ensured an entertaining offseason around here

The hot takes are flowing like lava, devouring everything in their path

Bitter enemies are being made before our eyes

This agitation shall sustain and nourish us

So our only good defensive coach from last year has left? Great...

New Orleans first rounder would be awesome. Gives us 29 and 30.

CP has burst again.

Ford's just gonna be so expensive for a 2nd and long and 3rd down player.
He's a part of the problem with our run defense. I'd be real surprised if he's still here. I seriously think the plan was to move on from him, and then he went and had his best season. I'd still do so, there won't be many edge rushers with those sack numbers available, and i bet someone with a bunch of cap space would pay him. We'll take the 2nd, thank you, and sign Brandon Graham for less than half of Ford's tag number. He can stop-gap for a season or two until the next group are ready.

Also, don't count out Kpass, who should've been a DE all along. Just because they wouldn't play him due to his poor coverage skills doesn't mean he's a washout. Let's see. But I agree I wouldn't bank on it.

I'm pretty sure Hamas and staylor haven't gotten along going back quite a ways.

Only a shitty deal if he doesn't perform up to snuff. It's still a significantly reduced contract and if he can make any kind of impact, it's really not that expensive for a starting DE. You can backload the contract so that you can only pay Houston the back years if he performs throughout the contract. I think it's worth it to create some stability during the 4-3 transition.

OMG ROFL

You ****ing guys. I mean jesus

ROFL

**** this board is bi-polar.

A position coach leaves from the worst defense in the NFL and pitchforks are out.
Same position coach was “rumored” to be considered for the DC job but the fans screamed “**** no”.

JFC.

I am all for letting Spags build his own staff. I am just surprised that this is the first guy out the door. He was our only bright spot on the Defensive side.

That's a shame. Thought he was decent for us. But given that hes pretty familiar with pettines defense, it's probably a better fit for him. I'm a little worried we'll be picking at table scraps this late in the game. Maybe some talent in the college ranks.

No kidding. The only reason posters were so high on him is the season Ford had, and yet plenty of posters have no problem tagging and trading Ford

He's just the first guy that got a job. I doubt he was the first out the door; I expect they were all told they were free to seek employment elsewhere.

Other than Britt, probably, who'll get like some defensive assistant/quality control gig or something.

I'm just cracking up because half the board was all, " They better not ****ing hire Mike ****ing Smith, he's a bum!"

And then immediately when he takes another job, it's all, " What?! Spags fired Mike Smith!?"

Yes, I would have preferred a longer process with more stones being unturned, who wouldn't? That said, as I thought about it more, I realized that the Chiefs were not going to deny a current position coach the opportunity and then bring in ANOTHER position coach from a different franchise. Do I agree with that? Not really. I believe talent should trump all. I believe in Meritocracy. But I can also be grateful that I am not staring down the barrel of a Mike Smith on this day.


At the end of the day, I'm getting my scheme change, I'm getting a DC with SOMETHING resembling a pulse, and the ONLY thing I need to ask myself is this:

"Can Spags get this defense from #31 to #23 or better in his first year"?

Yes. I believe he can. And when you have Reid and Mahomes, that...


...is enough.

LOL, I get it. I am really excited to hear who Spags brings in. Cant wait to hear whom and maybe a press conference from the man himself.

Antonio pierce keep a eye on him for LB coach

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">DVOA of defenses that Spagnuolo has DC&#39;d are as follows... 13th, 8th, 32nd, 30th, 2nd, and 24th.</p>&mdash; Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1088570023566893056?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 24, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yes, but again, you gotta consider the context there. 32 was Saints the year Payton was suspended, 30 was a horrific NYG squad he took over (and brought to 2nd the following year), and 24th was the year the Giants basically quit.</p>&mdash; Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1088592316053491713?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 25, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

gee, we haven't' seen this or discussed it for the last 36 hours or anything.

actually-he's probably the only one from that staff that will get a job at all.

It's fascinating. Like getting the dumbest piranhas you can find and then throwing them in a tiny fishbowl and watching them fight it out.

If they elect to get rid of Ford, ideally via the tag & trade if so, I’m really intrigued by Shane Ray.

He’s had a wrist issue that set him back and didn’t get many opportunities to play in Denver behind some stud players. But I think he could come here to KC where he is from, fully motivated and healthy, ready to fit right into this new scheme like a glove. And he’d probably cost 1/3 of what Ford will on the tag.

Not saying it’s necessarily what they should do but it could turn out well. Had 8 sacks in 2016, the one year that he actually got to play a decent amount.

You don't understand not wanting Mike Smith as Defensive Coordinator but still wanting Mike Smith as Linebacker's coach?

The problem with Ford is that he's taken SO LONG just to reach "contributing asset"-status. I don't know about you, but I'm not backing up the Brinks truck for a 1st round pick that reaches "contributing asset"-status as his high water mark going in to a contract year.

**** THAT.