Disagree on Foles. Foles is a gun-slinger who is always a coin-flip from away from 3 INT's. He chucks it deep and keeps his eyes constantly downfield. There was a considerable push from Chiefsplanet and the KC media that Foles should replace Alex in 2016 (Lezak and Alex's wife even got into it about that over twitter). Tiger said I was the "forum's biggest dumb***" for saying Foles could win a SB over Alex.

The thing with Foles is that when he does catch fire, he can compete with anyone. Game managers don't have a ceiling like that. They have to solely rely on their defense and running game to give them a lead to manage through the game. See the Broncos in 97 and 15, or the Ravens in 00' or the Bucs in 02'. Speaking of the Bucs, it was probably a bad thing for Gruden to win it all with Brad Johnson. Gruden does see potential in QB's, his praise of Mahomes is evidence enough of that, but seems to think they're not necessary after winning his lone SB with Tony Dungy's team.

Eh, even if I agree with you about Foles, how do you explain Eli? Average QB statistically, and most would call him a game manager type QB. 2 SB rings, 2 SB MVP awards. (let's leave Spags and his defenses out of this discussion).

Eli's the opposite of a game manager.

He's a mad bomber, and an extremely mediocre one at that. Eli never saw an interception he wouldn't try to throw.

Being an average or even below average quarterback doesn't make you a game manager. It's a style - not a performance rating.

There's little about Eli Manning that suggests game manager. He threw bombs whenever he thought he saw something available (even when it wasn't). He made risky, often stupid passes into coverage because he thought he was better than he is.

Eli Manning was a better version of Rex Grossman and a worse version of Kurt Warner. They were all the same type of player - none of them were game managers.

Nah. Gruden is just scared, that's all. Here are all the QBs drafted for Gruden-coached teams:

Raiders (1998-2001)
2001: Marques Tuiasosopo (2nd round)

Bucs (2002-2008)
2003: Chris Simms (3rd round)
2006: Bruce Gradkowski (6th round)
2008: Josh Johnson (5th round)

Raiders again (2018-present)
None

He probably only drafted Tui and Simms as high as he did because he was rolling with elderly dudes very close to retirement and his hand was getting forced. Drafting QBs wasn't a unique or novel concept to him, either. He came straight out of the Ron Wolf/Mike Holmgren school of constantly drafting QBs even if you have an entrenched starter. He cut his coaching teeth in a system that valued the position and produced SEVERAL starter-quality QBs from numerous Brett Favre backups.

I think Gruden is just a pussy and can't muster up the courage to pull the trigger on high draft pick QBs. Either that or he's lazy and doesn't want to deal with the hassle of not only scouting and selecting the right guy but also developing and coaching and being patient with him.

The guy was not a game manager in college. Look at him push the ball down the field consistently. That’s what made me like him in the draft, and maybe why there were rumors of us liking him too.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Guk3kvrFBzc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

He regressed in the NFL.

Every time Mahomes drops back to throw he is looking for the jugular and the homerun first and then goes elsewhere if nothing is there.

Every time Carr drops back to throw he is looking for the safest and quickest throw every time and turfs it if it isn’t there. Rarely if ever let’s plays develop because the clock in his head only goes to 1.0 seconds before he shits himself

Every scrub bench warmer you've ever seen in the NFL was the baddest mother****er on the planet on his High School team.

Virtually every quarterback regresses in the NFL. Alex Smith was the poster-child for it after his years in Utah running a wide-open spread.

You get to a higher level, things get harder, you tighten up in response. Great players don't.

Derek Carr was just never a great player. He did what the overwhelming majority of guys do when they move up from college to the pros.

Every Raider forum has a Derek Carr Sucks thread just like the Alex Smith threads here. Most Raider fans want to move on while some keep insisting he only needs "more time and weapons and a better defense...." LOL

He just needs more time to develop.

Carr may finally have competition lol

https://twitter.com/VicTafur/status/1294315372179464192


ic Tafur
@VicTafur
·
1h
Marcus Mariota “really fired me up today,” Gruden said. “He has turned a corner with his ankle (injury) and he is a dazzling playmaker. He had a very nice day.”

https://www.nfl.com/news/super-bowl-...ded-for-repeat

Does David Carr actually believe the bullshit he writes down or is this a joke to him?

David Carr: Raiders over Cowboys. Down six on the final drive, Derek Carr (channeling Kobe Bryant) marches the Raiders down the field to the 8-yard line with 24 seconds left on the clock. Little bro throws a laser for a touchdown to Darren Waller on a post route. Everything that's been built up over the years is behind that throw and the Power of God launches this ball straight into Waller's grip. The Cowboys get one final chance, but it ends when Maxx Crosby hits Dak Prescott as he throws the ball, and Damon Arnette seals the game with a pick-six. RAAAAIDDDDERRRRRSSSSS!

Personally, I don't think Derek Carr has ever, or can, throw a laser, let alone to win a game, and I know God wouldn't help him.

Embarrassing

Hope he doesn't ruin his mascara jamming little bros jock down his throat.

I saw this 20 minutes ago and I still haven't stopped laughing.
Call a doctor.

The other huge joke? The ****ing Cowboys being so many peoples' pick to win the NFC.

Only way the Cowboys are going to the Super Bowl is if they buy tickets.

It’s embarrassing that the NFLN allows him to be an expert. There are a lot of morons on NFLN though.

Eh well he certainly isnt where I thought he would be after 2016 but I dont think be sucks. Probably a mid tier at best QB but let me ask you this if you sub him with Cousins, Jimmy G, or Josh Allen is there much of a difference? I dont think those guys listed suck but all are pretty average. I would say Jimmy G is a bit inflated due to Shannahans genius. I'm pretty sure Carr could put up that type of production in his offense.

Yes I saw this on NFLN and I laughed and then became pissed that Youtube TV charged me 10 bucks more a month to acquire this channel. I want my 10 bucks back!

I agree. He's actually pretty average, which is perfect for us as division rivals. He's just good enough for them to keep spinning their wheels.

It's hard to believe they've given him more time than we gave Alex Smith.

This. If I’m Derek Carr I’m calling my brother and asking him to please stop.

LMAO

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RaiderNation?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#RaiderNation</a> <a href="https://t.co/lMa8OaIvK8">pic.twitter.com/lMa8OaIvK8</a></p>&mdash; The Artist Chief (@Coreyo4) <a href="https://twitter.com/Coreyo4/status/1388646249457496074?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1bb80f05e0.jpg

Holy shit LMAO

Raiders will get an A for that draft when David Carr comes back to the NFL and leads a team to the Super Bowl

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SeverePlum...restricted.gif

That's just as likely as Derek Carr leading a team to the Superbowl.

As you'd expect, I was left with a strong group of qualified passers, but there are some notable omissions from the top 10. The first one that leaps off the screen (and will likely attract an avalanche of angry tweets) is the absence of perhaps the league's top quarterback and most exciting deep passer: Patrick Mahomes.

Allow me to explain. We relied on a group of metrics to rank the qualifying passers. Chief among them: completion percentage over expectation (CPOE), which represents the difference between a passer's expected completion percentage (determined by evaluating a number of factors, including pressure, time to throw, distance of attempt and separation between targeted receiver and nearest defender) and actual completion percentage. A positive CPOE indicates performance above expectation, while a negative difference indicates performance below expectation. Mahomes ranked last in CPOE among the QBs who met the aforementioned statistical requirements, with a mark of -0.7 percent.

The talent around Mahomes could be working against him when it comes to CPOE. A key part of determining expected completion percentage is the separation of a receiver from the nearest defender at the time a pass arrives. A quarterback equipped with receivers who are excellent at creating separation figures to suffer in this regard because he'll have more expected completions than your average QB. With targets like Tyreek Hill, Mecole Hardman and Travis Kelce, Mahomes' situation becomes the perfect storm to produce a negative CPOE, even though we all know he is an excellent passer. As they say, speed kills, but it also can significantly hurt a quarterback's CPOE.

This is primarily why Mahomes -- who posted a 107 passer rating and 12:2 TD-to-INT ratio on deep passes -- didn't land on this list. It's essentially a requirement to end up with a positive CPOE to make the cut. If a quarterback isn't at least meeting expectation on deep throws, I'm not going to include him in the top 10.

We know who Derek Carr is; We've seen it for years. Last year we saw peak Carr, and the season was an outlier. He'll regress to his mediocre mean this season.

When Derrick Carr and Daniel Jones are on your list as the top 2 deep passers, and Mahomes doesn't even make your top 10, that's a huge ****ing red flag that you need to reevaluate your metrics.

If i did this exercise and that were my results i'd be too embarrassed to even post it.

I'd toss that shit in the trash and move on to some other fluff piece. Publish that instead.

Derek Carr = 4,000 yards, 25 TDs, 10 picks. A very okay QB and that’s it. Good enough to not be replaced. Not good enough to lead a real contender unless the roster is LOADED at every other position.

That’s what he is.

Unless that team is the Chiefs. Then they'd trade up to 10 overall and draft a legend and send your ass to Washington.

Derek Carr outplayed your boy in both games last year. Fact.

Would I rather have Mahomes? Hell yes.

Carr is much, much better than the view of the average Chiefs fan around here.

Though I have to admit I'm shocked at what Gruden has done with him. I figured Carr would remain shell shocked after the Del Rio fiasco.

He regressed last year when it mattered most.

Wait till you see how how he plays this season with a lesser OL. It’s gonna be epic!

DC caught some teams off guard last year throwing downfield much more than previous years. Once again though the league and film caught up by mid season and the team faded again. Carr will be just fine when all is well around him and he has time but if he gets punched in the mouth he turns into a puddle of piss

Wrong.. he'll be fine if he has a competent defense. Patrick is an outlier of elite talent, no QB would be successful with what the raiders have had in terms of defensive talent/scheme

Toss in the make shift OL due to injuries for most of the year and Carr had an amazing season.

Carr would be viewed very differently if the Raiders had even the 20th ranked defense on average for his career. His best D was 21st and the team went 12-4.

You may be correct. Carr may well be "fine" with an elite defense. Kinda like the old niners with Alex Smith fine. They stayed in every game because of an elite defense so an average offense can be carried to the playoffs. I just think Carrs ceiling is only slightly better than mediocre and he will never be able to lift a team by elevating those around him like the elite QBs do. Yes the Raiders need a defensive enema.....I get that. However if they can get better at QB, they should try every chance they get. Until he proves otherwise, when the going gets tough, Carr goes fetal

Carr leads the NFL for never ending excuses too. ;)

Another year, another bunch of people saying why the Raiders (and the Chargers for that matter) are secretly super good and then KC goes on to win a sixth straight AFCW.






If Rodgers goes to Denver that will be the first time I've even come close to worrying

Mahomes' deep ball still needs work, IMO.

Maybe one day he can be as great as Daniel Jones.

To be fair, watching the actual games, Carr and Jones both were very efficient on deep balls last year. Without any context, I agree, it's a shit list. But within the context of what they're actually measuring, it makes total sense.

Mahomes is NOT perfect, but he is still the best QB in the NFL.

A perfect Mahomes (add elite deep ball) would be unfair to the rest of the NFL. What would be the point in watching then? You'd already know the outcome going into every game.

David Carr is a worse analyst than he was a qb. And he was an awful qb.

Some question my decision to place the VW Beetle and Dodge Neon atop the auto performance rankings, but my system notes considerable impact for bug-eye headlights, which are nearly mandatory for high power rankings.

I'm still amazed at the string of success we've had.

5 division titles and 2 SB's in a row?

Never thought it would happen...

Only thing I would say is that David actually got physically destroyed every game and kept on trying. Derek is a fricken pussy when pressured. Derek likely has the better talent but David had more heart. JMO

LMAO

Buddy, you don't know what a makeshift OL looks like. You're in for a real treat this upcoming season, let me tell you.

All that sunshine you've been pumping out Alex Leatherwood's ass ain't gonna make Carr an effective QB behind those crash posts in front of him.

Carr did beat us last year. So the talent is there

Nick Foles has Tom Brady's number.

The talent is there.

Carr is a better Alex Smith, don't @me

Derek is not just eyeliner. He is about the foundation too.

false

https://scontent.fmkc1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...0b&oe=60D9865C

That isn't far off the truth. Unless the Raiders magically get a Ravens level Defense, they aren't winning a superbowl with Carr.

All the confirmation Elway needed.

Well Carr does have a cute wife and 3 kids. I'd assume he's straight.

This is wild

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...685a24ed64.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

#facts.

Raiders D is terrible. Hard to throw TDs when you have the lead when your D is bottom 3 at best.

Also, Raiders tend to run the ball inside the 10, so there is that as well.

ETA: Dubow is a fuggin' moron who is basically a troll. Posts half truths to get clicks.

ESPN had an article last week based around their "analysts" voting for Gold, Silver, and Bronze medalists at several positions. Mahomes was voted the gold medalist at QB. However, it also showed the voting selections made by the 15-20 analysts who participated. Any guess as to who David Carr selected for his gold medalist?

This is hillarious but also kinda sad. Carr has never been the same in the pocket since he got his leg broken

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Joey Bosa on Carr: &quot;We knew once we hit him a few times, he really gets shook. And you saw on (Covington&#39;s) sack, he was pretty much curling into a ball before we even got back there. Great dude, great player...but we know once you get pressure on him, he kind of shuts down.&quot;</p>&mdash; Daniel Popper (@danielrpopper) <a href="https://twitter.com/danielrpopper/status/1445257044106170368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 5, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/OUJ2qysoPc">https://t.co/OUJ2qysoPc</a> <a href="https://t.co/PZoeDCUyHT">pic.twitter.com/PZoeDCUyHT</a></p>&mdash; Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1445258631503613952?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 5, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Also known as the Cassel Fetal Position

The vertical Casshole fetal position!

Wasn’t that Huard? I seem to remember Reerun calling him “Downfield Big Fetal”. ROFL

Maybe that was Cassel. We have such a storied history and all.

Point taken. Maybe Reerun called Huard something about Captain Checkdown and his wobble launcher or something.

There was a time there where Reeruns pure hatred led to some excellent comedy.

Too bad the Chiefs don't have a pass rush, because Carr is going to be a bigger problem than he should be.

Someone that sucks that man just got paid..


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Raiders?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Raiders</a> and star QB Derek Carr have agreed to terms on a 3-year contract extension worth $121.5M, source said. The agreement ties Carr to Las Vegas through the 2025 season. He is already the longest tenured QB in the AFC. �� �� ��</p>&mdash; Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) <a href="https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1514249450537029633?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 13, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

commitment to mediocrity

BAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

Raiders decide to lock up the 4th best QB in the division. Nice.

Wow.

Honestly, probably not a dumb move by the Faid. There probably isn't much better they can do.

Don't have to change my punny name for another few years.

:)

$35MM per year isn't bad for Carr.

Considering all the QBs in the AFCW are in the top 3rd of the NFL at worst, money is right.

Do you even math, bro?

That's a $40.5 million/yr extension. You're not really gonna try to lump this year's $20 million figure in there with it to make yourself feel better, are you?

Because yeah, $40+ million for a thoroughly average QB is REAL bad.

A no trade clause?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In all, Derek Carr is set to earn $141.3 million over four years, with $100 million of it coming over the next three years. The deal also includes a no-trade clause, source says. <br><br>Carr remains the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Raiders?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Raiders</a>’ QB for the foreseeable future. <a href="https://t.co/b0Q69zpF1B">https://t.co/b0Q69zpF1B</a></p>&mdash; Mike Garafolo (@MikeGarafolo) <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1514249565939011593?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 13, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

In today's NFL, you either sign your QB or dump him and try again. After trading for Adams and the other moves, McDaniels wasn't rebuilding.

Odds are, the try for a new QB option doesn't yield a good a QB as Carr.