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-   -   Chiefs The fate of Chris Jones 2023 edition (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=349477)

Sassy Squatch 07-24-2023 09:22 AM
But again, any agent worth his salt will advise the player to hold in, especially given how the CBA is currently constructed

kcgreene 07-24-2023 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassy Snatch (Post 17028559)
It will give us a significant chunk of cap space but not sure it changes the formula.
In reality, most of that money still sits occupied, because he can *suit up* at any point, BUT part of that money would rollover into next years cap (someone will have to help me out with that one, I'm not sure how much is eligible to rollover)

Sassy Squatch 07-24-2023 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcgreene (Post 17028563)
In reality, most of that money still sits occupied, because he can sign at any point, BUT part of that money would rollover into next years cap (someone will have to help me out with that one, I'm not sure how much is eligible to rollover)
Right. I meant in the 2024 offseason.

TwistedChief 07-24-2023 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kysirsoze (Post 17028557)
If he holds out to week 11 like some theorized, does that lower his tag number since it's based on how much he was paid the year previous?
I really wish that were true, but if holds out until week 11 this season, the idea that we’re gonna tag him and re-do this same dance next year would be insane.

And just to be clear, if it’s 33mm, that’s straight 33mm hit right into the team’s salary cap next year that can’t be restructured or manipulated. And if we do tag him with the intention to trade him, other teams know that we’re vulnerable because we meaningfully limit our flexibility throughout the free agency period if our asking price is too high and we end up having to keep him at that straight cap hit.

kcgreene 07-24-2023 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassy Snatch (Post 17028564)
Right. I meant in the 2024 offseason.
Thought I edited the post in time! My mind was still on the tag, but the thought was meant for this year. My bad! But yes, possible rollover if he didn't suit up for most of the year.

kysirsoze 07-24-2023 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 17028566)
I really wish that were true, but if holds out until week 11 this season, the idea that we’re gonna tag him and re-do this same dance next year would be insane.

And just to be clear, if it’s 33mm, that’s straight 33mm hit right into the team’s salary cap next year that can’t be restructured or manipulated. And if we do tag him with the intention to trade him, other teams know that we’re vulnerable because we meaningfully limit our flexibility throughout the free agency period if our asking price is too high and we end up having to keep him at that straight cap hit.
Well I was just thinking, in the unlikely event that he held out actual games, if it reduced his tag number significantly it makes him much more tradable and makes our position next year stronger. If it's 33 mill next year no matter what than it's a moot point.

TwistedChief 07-24-2023 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcgreene (Post 17028561)
It's all good. I still wanna look it up on the NFL's site and see, but they don't make hunting that stuff down specifically user friendly to say the least imo
Here’s it on the NFL’s site:

https://www.nfl.com/news/2023-nfl-fr...ting%20bonuses.

Quote:
Prior Year Salary (PYS): A player's PYS is composed of his base salary, roster and reporting bonuses, prorated signing bonus and other payments to players for playing in the NFL for the previous league year -- except any performance bonuses outside of roster and reporting bonuses. This is important because the PYS is used for the calculations of the tags.

O.city 07-24-2023 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17028509)
I don't think Chris is "vital" to the defense moving forward. Like the defense isn't gonna crash and burn and suck if he's gone. But it will be noticeable.

The defense has some damn good talent on it man. Bolton, Sneed, McDuffie, Reid. I do believe Karlaftis is gonna break out and be a double-digit sack guy this year as well.

I like that Veach planned for this possibility with back-to-back first rd DE's and Omenihu.

Obviously I'd like to keep Chris, but if he wants Donald money and Veach trades him it wouldn't ruin us. We'd still be a top AFC team. We just saw what this franchise did last year with extra high draft picks and cash. We could do that again if it came down to it.

Again I love Chris but the Chiefs are still arguably the best team in the AFC bc of Andy and Patrick.
The defense would take a substantial hit losing a dpoy candidate

There’s no way it wouldn’t

Sassy Squatch 07-24-2023 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 17028566)
I really wish that were true, but if holds out until week 11 this season, the idea that we’re gonna tag him and re-do this same dance next year would be insane.

And just to be clear, if it’s 33mm, that’s straight 33mm hit right into the team’s salary cap next year that can’t be restructured or manipulated. And if we do tag him with the intention to trade him, other teams know that we’re vulnerable because we meaningfully limit our flexibility throughout the free agency period if our asking price is too high and we end up having to keep him at that straight cap hit.
Yeah, I didn't think the 33 million number was accurate. The fact that it actually is shifts the thinking quite a bit. But you can't let a player of Jones caliber go without anything in return. Backloading extensions may be the only way forward and a relatively uneventful 2024 free agency.

kcgreene 07-24-2023 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 17028573)
Thanks!

So, I think that changes it a tiny bit. His Base Salary is 19.5M, 500K Reporting Bonus applies, and 7.041M in Prorated bonuses this year. He has 1.25M of his cap hit that looks like it won't apply because it is a performance based incentive that is likely to be earned this year (hence it counts against us currently because he achieved 10 sacks last year)

So his PYS is 27.041M, which would make 120% = 32.45M

So about a million less? I'll take whatever we can get.

RunKC 07-24-2023 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17028574)
The defense would take a substantial hit losing a dpoy candidate

There’s no way it wouldn’t
It would definitely be noticeable. But look at the landscape of what losing Chris looks like now compared to years prior.

2022-Frank, Dunlap, Danna, Turk, Nnadi, rookie Karlaftis, Kaindoh, Herring

Now-2nd year Karlaftis, Omenihu, Rookie FAU, Danna, Nnadi, Turk, rookie Thompson, rookie Colbert

Veach invested a lot to help bolster the DL this off-season. Feels like if Chris were to miss time we wouldn't be ****ed. Like there's some solid talent resources compared to prior years.

TwistedChief 07-24-2023 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17028595)
It would definitely be noticeable. But look at the landscape of what losing Chris looks like now compared to years prior.

2022-Frank, Dunlap, Danna, Turk, Nnadi, rookie Karlaftis, Kaindoh, Herring

Now-2nd year Karlaftis, Omenihu, Rookie FAU, Danna, Nnadi, Turk, rookie Thompson, rookie Colbert

Veach invested a lot to help bolster the DL this off-season. Feels like if Chris were to miss time we wouldn't be ****ed. Like there's some solid talent resources compared to prior years.
Counterpoint: do we know how much talent these guys have in a world without Chris Jones being the focal point of the opposing team's pass blocking?

O.city 07-24-2023 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17028595)
It would definitely be noticeable. But look at the landscape of what losing Chris looks like now compared to years prior.

2022-Frank, Dunlap, Danna, Turk, Nnadi, rookie Karlaftis, Kaindoh, Herring

Now-2nd year Karlaftis, Omenihu, Rookie FAU, Danna, Nnadi, Turk, rookie Thompson, rookie Colbert

Veach invested a lot to help bolster the DL this off-season. Feels like if Chris were to miss time we wouldn't be ****ed. Like there's some solid talent resources compared to prior years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 17028597)
Counterpoint: do we know how much talent these guys have in a world without Chris Jones being the focal point of the opposing team's pass blocking?
It's a bottom 10 DL with no Chris JOnes, and that may be being optimistic.

RunKC 07-24-2023 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 17028597)
Counterpoint: do we know how much talent these guys have in a world without Chris Jones being the focal point of the opposing team's pass blocking?
Well last year we all know for a fact that we had no bend or speed on the edge. Danna and Karlaftis just aren't those types and Frank was...disappointing.

Danna was pretty damn good rushing inside but Omenihu is a much better version. Omenihu is gonna be the best interior rusher Chris has ever had next to him. I think he's gonna be an absolute menace under Spags. He was in SF but just didn't get enough snaps.

Something else to think about is Spags blitzes. Even with Chris last year Spags got most of our pressure through blitz designs. That's been a strong part of the defense.

If Chris held out I think Spags could have this pass rush be average ish and functional.

duncan_idaho 07-24-2023 10:05 AM
That’s why the trade at this point gets even tougher.

If the Colts see value in upgrading from Buckner to Jones and paying more to do it now, that’s an option.

Otherwise, you’re shopping with the Panthers and maybe asking for Brown back as your best option.


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