And let’s be real here, Moore”s upside doesn’t likely touch Simmons ceiling. Sure the floor is way higher on Moore but the talent gap from a ceiling standpoint is pretty damn large.

I’m fine with taking this swing at this point. It was the 32nd pick not the 10th etc…

We took a calculated risk because of desperation.

If the guy we signed was 100% the answer we don't have to address this need with a 1st round pick. We don't draft a QB in round 1 because we 100% have the answer there.

Meh. I don’t think it’s fair to compare a team picking at, say, 12 who didn’t take him to the Chiefs. But I think it’s entirely likely that there would’ve been teams picking earlier than 31/32 who would’ve chosen him if their picks had been as late as ours.

Take that to its extreme. If we can for the sake of argument agree that he’s a top-5 player ex-injury, then the question becomes, “What type of discount do you need?” Are the Raiders at 6 getting much surplus value choosing him there? Not really. How about the Chiefs at 32? Well, that’s more reasonable. How about at the back of the 7th round? At some point the value is clearly enough.

I just don’t think it’s fair or apples-to-apples to act like we must have a dramatically different eval on the guy or the medicals than each and every team that passed on him.

This is one factor some of the naysayers may be missing. Orthopedic surgery is constantly advancing. ACL injuries were career-enders a few decades ago. By all accounts, his surgeon did a really good job with the tendon repair.

Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't - but it's a risk the Chiefs had to take imo. How many opportunities are we going to have to get a guy who probably would've been the top LT on the board without trading key picks to move way up?

Agreed. Simmons had a higher upside than Moore, no question.

But again, we've won a championship with 'solid' at the position. Arguably less than that.

I think we're fine focusing on floor at LT. Smart to do so, in fact.

DL, RB - gimme ceiling. Secondary, LB, OL - I'm emphasizing floor. WR would largely depend on the existing room.

If the Chiefs felt that Simmons was not a long term answer with his injury history, they would have been more aggressive in free agency than signing Moore.

I.e. trading for Tunsil.

This pick just might define the next phase of Mahomes career, in 1 way or another.

We also need DEPTH at the OL, Veach said in the post-draft presser it is a long season and Moore has to stay healthy. Going into Championship games without adequate pass protection due to injuries and subpar OL depth and getting thumped is really getting old

I've already noted that if you think he's a top 5 player absent the injury, the pick is defensible. In fact, it's what I thought the Chiefs HAD to believe to make the pick and said so over a month ago.

I don't. I'd have had him 10-15.

That’s not true. Really bad logic here. There are teams that wouldn’t have taken a tackle no matter what.

If the Chiefs signed Moore because they were 100% confident they were going to get Simmons, they wouldn't have traded back because the Eagles could absolutely have used a long-term replacement at RT for Lane Johnson.

Those decisions were made independently of each other.

My argument is we should have.

People saying "it's not a problem because Veach didn't feel it's a problem" are ignoring that it's been a problem for years now we haven't been able to fix with long shot draft picks.

I don't feel we corrected a mistake yesterday - I feel like we repeated it.

So I don’t think it’s directly translatable into just simply saying that you’d feel comfortable drafting him 5-10 slots later as a result, but where would you have been okay taking him?

Or traded up to the high 20s?

Nah. Not if he's the obvious top 5 talent who teams are confident in his medicals over.

I don't see how folks can simultaneously make this argument and also say the chiefs had to do it because of how precious and rare young blue chip OTs are.

And every team that needed a tackle and drafted one didn't take him.

Every round and every pick he fell the risk was smaller. No one felt he was worth risking a 1st round pick for other than us.

Veach said they asked the Eagles if they were drafting defense or offense before making the trade.

I said I would probably consider him with our 2nd but that there was a good chance I still had someone I liked more than him.

My 'definitely would take' point was our late 3rd. At that point I don't give a shit about the risk. And I knew he wasn't gonna last to there. So I was content simply not getting him.

Posted in another thread but here is Orlando Brown Jr evaluating Josh Simmons.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/taTlRY9YV9A?si=l830esgdmkgDw3rC&amp;start=3752" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

IF anything signing Moore was the "desperation" move that Veach did just mins after FA opened up. A short term deal also says desperation move.

I'm happy with the Moore signing and I feel Veach had to be desperate finding a LT after what happened last season.

Drafting Simmons was not a desperation move because Veach had already signed Moore. Simmons is a long term move that is a cheap contract.

We had 1 average/good tackle on the roster before FA started. So Veach was always going to get another starter and a backup. Who he pays shouldn't matter and if Simmons wins the starting job, Moore is a great tackle to have as a backup........JUST LIKE HE WAS IN SAN FRAN! Who cares if Simmons is getting the big contract or Moore.

Comical how people latch on to the “1st round pick!” narrative when dude was literally the last pick in round 1.

Guess what if you hit on him you get a 5th year option at a discount. That alone is worth taking him 5-10 spots sooner.

Sorry, but this just isn’t accurate.

The best you can say is that no one else felt at their existing pick in the first round that the risk was worth it.

lurk more

And he used the leverage of trading back further still to convince the Eagles to make the deal.

Because the Eagles don't make that trade just to jump KC. It was to stave off someone looking to jump THEM. Which would necessitate Veach moving down further.

So either Veach was willing to move further than 32 (in which case, MORE risk) or he was simply bluffing. In which case he'd have to consider the real possibility that the Eagles were as well.

It doesn't wash.

And he states the point right off the bat "His transition to the NFL will be easier due to his God given ability." His athleticism and movement are what allow him to react and adjust.

That's why a knee injury is so bad. We're not talking about a non-pulling guard that focuses on run blocking - he's a super athletic LT. His game is to mirror, adjust, and anchor.

Okay, so you would’ve been okay in the second. They got him in the first instead.

It’s not like the decision is out in some other orbit and indefensible.

This is like the Alex Smith's fan wet dream. Overpay at RT. Give 40mil to your center and guard. Give 20mil to your LT and then draft another LT in the first. We just gave to draft a guard in the 2nd round to complete it.

Andy and Veach both said last night they needed to be aggressive to fix the position.

I sure hope you’re wrong, for multiple reasons.

The Chiefs are definitely outliers...no other team has 5 SB appearances in the last six years with the most recent showing their 3-time SB MVP QB get pressured at an absurd +50% clip.

Honestly, who gives a shit why the other 31 teams passed on Simmons? If one of them appears in 5 of the next 6 SB's and wins 3 then maybe then it'll be time to pay attention to their decision-making. But until then, f**k 'em.

For the Chiefs, a team that has been and continues to be built for sustained success, Simmons apparently made absolute sense at the end of the 1st round, especially after their medical staff did their homework plus some extra credit on his knee. That's it and that's all.

The most hilarious thing thing about that video, is how the armchair general manager wannabes here along with the "expert" Phoenix University/DeVry PHD "medical staff" here...pretend to know so, so much more about Simmons than Brown, Simms, Reid, Veatch, and the entire Chief's staff who are paid handsomely to make these decisions.

Of course, if Simmons doesn't pan out--they'll be screaming "we told you so!" regarding a proposition that involves about a 50% or less hit rate to begin with. Priceless!ROFL

EDIT: As for Moore's contract--it's Clark's $$$ and Veatch obviously had his "permission"...what are we whining about? Gosh, DEPTH, on the OLine...the travesty!?! :bong:

The value lost in that calculus is about a 1st round pick next season.

I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make there.

Risk is of COURSE mitigated by the amount of said risk you're taking on. Which is directly related to where the pick was made.

I mean...yeah. And? I'm fine with Moore at $15 million/season. I wouldn't have been fine with him at $30 million. It's not because I care about his take-home, it's because I care about how it impacts the cap and this what we can/cannot do around him. Again - a direct risk assessment.

That's...universal. It's every argument ever had about personnel on this board. Hell, it was what spun me up about Skyy.

What you're arguing is effectively a truism.

I assume you are you using a machine to do that, correct?

My CrossFit gym just happens to be doing squats today at 80%+ of 1RM. Just looked at the leaderboard and one dude did 385 pounds. Next most is 335. One dude I know who is a moderately good CrossFitter (way better than me) I see did 255. None of these guys are rehabbing torn knee ligaments, and yes none of them are professional athletes. I get that pro athletes are mostly way above these guys. Just still believe that for a ligament that was surgically repaired a few months ago we don't have to act like 225 pounds is nothing. If he's doing that and somebody is evaluating that the knee is functioning properly and looking good that could be meaningful.

What you keep missing is how good this guy is technically right now.

This isn't Kingsley learning to play the position.

This.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just a different kind of mindset in KC �� <a href="https://twitter.com/josh5immons?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@josh5immons</a> <a href="https://t.co/eYeZxrXNPk">pic.twitter.com/eYeZxrXNPk</a></p>&mdash; KC Sports Network (@KCSportsNetwork) <a href="https://twitter.com/KCSportsNetwork/status/1915845374918513057?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 25, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Man them tits are really droopy

You realize that the entire argument arises from people saying "why don't you just defer to the chiefs medical team?" - right?

Those other teams also have medical teams and came to different conclusions.

Nobody LED with this point. It was a direct rebuttal to an appeal to authority by citing alternate authority.

That's how debate works, chap.

And we scored 38 points against another Eagles Super Team with Orlando at tackle, who I admit is not the ideal LT.

Imagine we get ideal...

Would they have taken simmons over Conerly if he was still on the board

Then stop appealing to authority if you don't want to discuss alternate authority.

I didn't open this particular door, fellas.

Yall did.

Also it’s more accurate to say how many teams drafting late in the first round who had a need at LT passed in him.

Obviously the risk calculus is different for teams drafting earlier in the first round.

Although you could argue that having guard arms (Will Campbell) is a bigger detriment/risk to long term success as a LT.

That's the million dollar question. We'll never have the answer.

But damn it's a fascinating thought exercise.

Rice
Worthy
Creed
Smith
Gray
Kingsley
Simmons

Very nice young core around Pat.

Let's add a RB and/or a TE/WR today.

I’m not really arguing anything, more just trying to tease out your approach versus theirs and seeing where they diverge.

Before the draft, you seemed like you would’ve been okay with him in the second. And that’s pretty much on the basis of knowing nothing of the specific medicals and just taking him as the median case in the study that showed that only 1 of 15 OL really recovered from the injury to play at a similar level. Totally fair.

So then let’s consider that the Chiefs have a bit more of the specific medical information that - to them at least - puts him in a more favorable light versus said median. And then maybe they have him on their board in the 5ish range instead of your 10-15.

If you work with the above construct, then gap would seem to narrow between your taking him in the second to their doing so in the first. That’s all.

The annoying thing will be, yes, they will scream “I told you so”. But if he hits they will love it and excuse him as an outlier and act like they weren’t jack asses the last 10 hours.
The god complex of some here is outrageous. I have 50,000 posts so I know everything and you can’t argue with me.

And the benefit of the 5th year option outweighs the value difference. At least imo

Yeah, usually on a machine with a spotter. Sometimes with knee on bench.

See next comment for rest of idea re: this report


Sure. The point about him squatting 225 on both legs is that if he’s squatting half the weight you’d reasonably expect to be his max rep, they’re not testing if he has regained his full strength and flexibility after the repair. So you don’t have a gauge of how much of what he was before the injury, is still present. You can be confident the surgery was good, but you haven’t texted if the knee is as powerful and good as it was before.


I told DJ - and he disagreed with me - that I wouldn’t take him. But at best, a player with these risk would be a Day 3 guy for me.

The work they put into Simmons during the same timeframe they signed Moore disagrees with that, doesn’t it?

It's a risk no matter what. The cost of the risk is what makes it a better or worse decision.

Buying a work car that might last a year for $600 is much better than buying one for $6,000.

As Mahomes gets older, a better LT might be more important.

I think I have a few posts you haven't downvoted yet, champ.

Better hustle.

No, I didn't. I just explained why he's good.

And if he can't move he's shit. Complete shit. Kingsly will be on the field. He'll be ass but he'll be an NFL player. This is not a thing that matters now - that flare up could come next week or next year and then he's done.

No one is arguing about his upside but you. We all know what it was before the injury.

I knew that would butt hurt you

I always enjoy this.

Guys get specifically called out, often by name, and when they respond - in a public discussion forum - this is the result.

Okay fella. Keep on pissing in your shoes and wondering why your socks are wet.

Why would it?

I had a couple wholly benign posts with a red thumb, figured I'd see why.

Otherwise it's draft season. Red thumbs are to be expected. Scurry along now tiger - you have posts to vote on.

Of course if he "can't move" he's going to suck.



LMAO

You brought it up. That’s how I know it tickled you butt.

If the thing that is most likely to happen happens, the obvious thing, that's not anyone having a God complex. It's just was is most likely to happen happening.

They annoying thing is someone buying a lottery ticket to pay for retirement actually winning and then acting like it was a good decision. It's not. No one is acting like a jackass that doesn't normally act like a jackass. It's just a career ending injury that we spent a high draft pick on. This isn't controversial - it's obvious.

And it's not just the compensation - it's the risk. If we'd have traded up into the top 15 for a LT I'd have been fine. It's the risk and this specific injury.

I'm not the one with 50-60 posts in a thread, pounding my chest about how smart I am...simply respond, and let it go. Don't keep trotting out the same tired trope...only paraphrasing a previous post you made in the same thread--in a public forum. And then pretend not to be butt hurt by the dreaded red thumb in a NFL draft thread. Drat, curses!

Relax, man....don't worry, be happy. Go take a gummy or two, or whatever takes you to your happy place.

And you understand that almost everyone with this injury has these flare ups, right? At some point he may be old Meat Roaf, right? That could happen week 2 of this season.

It's not an ACL that's just fixed and then it's good. This is a risk for the rest of his career.

lol

Dude, I don’t need to be a doctor to read a research conducted by doctors who are orthopaedic surgeons, that passed the standard required to get published in PubMed. Neither do you. I need to be able to read and pay attention to what I’m reading.

I really hope I have no need to ever say “I told you so!” About this pick. Because that’s good for the team I root for.

This board would be pretty ****ing boring if no one ever expressed disagreement with something the coach or staff did.

Doesn’t everyone take a risk stepping out on the field?

Here is who is teaching your kids

That's a pretty disingenuous way to frame the situation.

Yeah - I mean someone said "We'll know a lot in training camp..."

No we won't. Not good OR bad.

A) I truly hope nobody is just expecting the kid to come in and take the job and will shit on him if he doesn't.

B) Let's say he does -- the risk of reinjury or long-term compensatory injuries because of this issue are extremely high.

No matter WHAT happens, I don't think you can even start to write this story until September of 2026. I damn sure won't be dancing on any graves if it comes to that. The only thing that might be worth mentioning might be short-term opportunity cost but even that's an open conversation for quite some time.

All we can do now is wait. And hope. Probably for longer than any of us would really like.

If Denver or the Raiders made this same pick, the tone would be totally different about his injury history.

Veatch specifically said in his interview...he ONLY asked Rosen "you looking for Offense or Defense." When Howie said, Defense--Brett said, deal! I just don't get why some seem to think they know better than the staff who closely scrutinized Simons prior to pulling the trigger?

No one is arguing there isn't a risk, and he could be another wasted pick--but every team has those. It's not an exact science. Do you due diligence, and don't look back. That's all anyone can ask.

this a supposedly a deep draft. Mocks think we can get the Ohio State RB in the 3rd.

DT and WR in the 2nd and RB in the 3rd.

Dude...talk about axe to grind. No substantive disagreement, just insults. Get a life, man. LMAO

You 100% don’t know that.

None of us are privy to his medical specifics…so we don’t have to result in panic and doom.

Rick, Andy and Brett are, though…and they gambled on what they saw.

I already spoke to this.

Either Veach was willing to go back FURTHER using the leverage of a trade back to convince the Eagles to move up.

Or he was bluffing -- in which case he had to consider the possibility Rosen was as well.

In either instance, he was taking on additional risk. And just as I said with the Moore pick when everyone was hot and bothered by that one -- if he truly LOVED that player, he never takes on that risk. Not for the return of a 5th round pick.

Y'all demand omniscience to have these conversations. I simply ask that you exhibit some common sense.

You get pretty irritable when someone has a substantive disagreement.

So at this point I'm not sure what you're looking for apart from constant affirmation.

Have fun with that.

No, it's not. If you're going to take a huge risk have a safety net. An unproven player is not a safety net. We signed him to an easy to end two year deal that's really a one year deal.

Just in case he doesn't work out - which is a legitimate risk. So we now have two risks as our plan. That's the truth.

I mean...if it's a 1 year deal it comes out to about $22 million for that season.

That's...significant.

If you're going to throw $20+ million at someone, I'd hope the very LEAST you can say about him is that he's a 'safety net'.

We 100% know that. No one has had longer than a 7 year career after this injury. That's fact. That's the best case.

Anyone who says different has no evidence to back up their case. You can't show me one player at any position that had this injury and had a long career after that. I'm not ignoring facts - you are.

You and your buddies cross-forum vitriol and grudges are petty...I'd respectfully suggest you fellas to either chill, or grow up. Life is too short to live on any discussion board the way some folks here do. Go get laid or something, sheesh.

Well, if you take any NFL player at random, the odds are overwhelming that they have fewer than seven years remaining in their career. Even if you just take rookies, the average career is something like four years, right? And I think that doesn't even count fringe players on practice squads.

Do you realize how unreasonable that expectation is, though?

The average NFL career is 3 years. With or without injury.

Rick has dealt with this injury both successfully and unsuccessfully and gave about the best feedback anyone could ever hope for.

We don’t even fully know if this was a full or partial tear.

I don't recall the last time I saw you post in DC. I'm barely over there. Isn't anything cross-forum here...

You just seem to think that folks arguing over a prospect is some sort of personal affront to you, regardless of how much substance they've put behind it that day or in the weeks before it.

So if they get five healthy seasons with Simmons anchoring the LT position… which would last through Mahomes’ mid-30’s… would the draft pick be justified?

For perspective, Ronnie Stanley has only played like one full healthy season in his NFL career, and some here were still willing to break the bank for him.

Not really. We would be hoping to God they bet wrong and didn’t get a steal in the draft.

Because he is a Chief we hope to hell Veach and company bet right and got a steal in the draft.

Nothing more, nothing less really. Because that’s all it is.