Yeah - guys don't 'move up' boards.

Sometimes a talking head gets a tip about where the player always was. Sometimes it's just a smokescreen.

But these guys set their boards weeks before the draft, months usually. They're 90% done after the medicals and a little extra film review made necessary by some combine results that suggest a player could be a little better or worse than you thought (so you go re-analyze his film).

But his idea that teams are just out there moving guys up and down their draft boards 72 hours prior to the pick is silly, absent an instagram photo of you getting high in a gas mask a week before the draft. There hasn't been anything new to learn in weeks. These boards are set.

"Moving up boards" is the most annoying thing these guys ever say.

Andy's offense is too hard for rookies to learn. Takes them a while, haven't you heard.

The real problem is that it takes so long to earn PM's trust...

https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/p...trycuzjec4vj0o

Well shit.

I see this and all I think is Rashee Rice played against some very poor, sub par AAC defenders who maybe, maybe are USFL bound if they are lucky, and Tillman was playing against a bunch of SEC players who were going to the NFL.

God damn you're insufferable.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Multiple impressive parts of Rashee Rice&#39;s YAC ability<br><br>- The 5-10yd explosion to break ankles<br>- The transition speed from receiver to runner, even on poor passes<br>- Enough agility to force misses but powerful run finisher<br>- Got that dog in em <a href="https://t.co/9UAL2Axocs">pic.twitter.com/9UAL2Axocs</a></p>&mdash; Matt Lane (@Matty_KCSN) <a href="https://twitter.com/Matty_KCSN/status/1653839322829692950?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 3, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ok, I have to admit that I laughed while I was typing that.

The truth is that the AAC is not comparable to the SEC.

Mahomes threw a pass to Marcus Kemp in the AFC Championship game. Mahomes played one regular game with Albert Wilson and Wilson got paid by Miami.

I think that Rice is going to be good in this offense, with Mahomes and Reid. I like Rashee Rice, as I have said over and over.

You're basically a Moore fan but with Rice now.

Time is a flat circle.

Correct.

But it's because I think Rice is a better prospect and the arguments used to prop Moore up don't really apply.

I just didn't think Moore was a top 50 guy; more like top 100ish. And that level of prospect shouldn't create high expectations in year 1.

He did. They weren't met. But he can still be productive going forward.

Rice, as a better prospect, should engender higher expectations and I think he'll meet them.

I'm making the same arguments I made last season - I just think Rice is better and has a more adaptable skill-set to immediately contribute.

Rashee Rice had almost 200 yards against a Maryland defense with a 1st round CB and a 2nd round CB.

This is going to be a fun thread to revisit over the next 10 years and laugh at all the morons who doubted this kid. :D

In fairness, I raised this point w/r/t Jalen Tolbert last year and he was pretty much shite.

He absolutely vivisected Tennessee and in the end, he still did precisely dick last season and some think he'll get cut out of camp this year.

At a point, the sample size does need to matter and Rice does have some quality of competition concerns. A lot of guys can have a single good day against a quality defense, but we just don't know if he can do it week in, week out.

For me, the traits say he can.

We all know that you can't be a good WR unless you played in the SEC

I have to say, we have drafted alot of shitty receivers since jon baldwin, and the only one to really pan out was tyreek hill.

This one just feels different then mecole, skyy, conley, and drob.

I think our wr corp could be a sleeper squad this year.

Little AJ Brown in him vibes

That still doesn't mean he didn't play in the AAC. It doesn't change the fact that the SEC is on a different level talent-wise compared to the AAC. And I am sure that Tillman played against some directional state schools in their non-con schedule, too.

I want every player, whether I like their draft position, or whether I like them at all, to succeed in a Chiefs uniform. I think if Rice is even 75% of the player so many here think he is going to be, he will be great.

After the draft last year, everyone convinced me that Skyy Moore was actually a better fit than Watson or Pickens, and I had high hopes for Moore. Well, he struggled to learn the offense, and caused turnovers on offense and special teams, and the people who said he was the right choice over Pickens made excuses for him the entire season.

As a team the Chiefs struggle to draft wide receivers, or ball catchers in general.

In 2013 we hit on Kelce with the 63rd pick

In 2015 we missed with Chris Conley with the 76th pick. Stefon Diggs went with the 146th pick that year. Conley was on the team for a few years, but never played like the 76th pick.

In 2016 we drafted Marcus Robinson at pick 126, and Tyreek Hill at pick 165. Both contributed and one became a superstar.

In 2017 we drafted Jehu Chesson at pick 139. George Kittle went at pick 146. I know he isn't a WR, but he is a notable pass catcher.

In 2018 we did get UDFA Byron Pringle

In 2019 we took Mecole Hardman with the 56th pick. D.K. Metcalf went 64, Terry McLaurin went 76, Hunter Renfrow went 149. Hardman did go to the Pro Bowl as a returner, but Metcalf would have been a MONSTER with Mahomes, and McLaurin would be even better than he has been with the crap QBs in Washington.

In 2020 we picked CEH at 32, and Tee Higgins went at pick 33. I know CEH is a RB, but Tee Higgins would have been amazing with Mahomes and Reid.

In 2021 we picked Noah Gray at 162 and Cornell Powell at 181. I feel like Gray has been a disappointment, but with Kelce being Kelce it is hard to fault him for being what he is. Heck, sometimes I feel like maybe Gray should be used like the 49ers use Kyle Juszczyk at FB.

In 2022 we picked Skyy Moore at pick 54.

Those WR draft picks in the Andy Reid era do not exactly inspire confidence in this team's ability, over two GMs, to draft the Wide Receiver position.

I am not saying that we missed on a bunch of HOFers, but we did miss out on receivers who were more productive than who we drafted.

This has been discussed ad nauseaum.

The Chiefs have invested a grand total of 2 2nds and one 3rd on WRs in Reid's tenure (in terms of a significant investment), and one of those is exactly one ****ing year into his career.

This narrative is absolutely reeruned. The issue is a lack of investment in the position, not an inability to find WRs.

That's why you have to include guys that aren't even ****ing WRs to try to make your stupid point. What does CEH, Gray, etc. have to do with the Chiefs ability or lack thereof to draft WRs?

Side note, Gray has been a disappointment? What exactly are your expectations for a day 3 TE? Just a glimpse into the issue with people like yourself, which is absurd/unrealistic expectations.

Same with Demarcus Robinson, who was a fine day 3 pick at WR.

And yea guys like Chesson and Powell weren't very good. Huge shock there! Guess they should've found a couple more Tyreek's instead huh?

You're basically looking at Hardman and Conley. Those are the only guys that were taken earlier than day 3 and played long enough to judge. Hardman was far from a bust, and Conley wasn't that bad himself.

I really can't wait for this dumb narrative to die as quickly as the narrative about us drafting LBs, DEs, etc.

If you liked Tee Higgins, Rashee Rice should be even higher on your radar bc Higgins doesn’t have the explosiveness that Rice does.

Higgins kinda showed his ass a bit in the AFCCG as a jump ball only WR who couldn’t use his athleticism to beat coverage.

So much of this comes from people who simply don't have a working understanding of what should be expected from certain spots in the draft. And who simultaneously demand perfection from a process that is LOADED with blind luck.

If you get anything at all from a 4th round pick or later, including 4 seasons of decent STs contributions, that's a win. If a 3rd rounder is starting games and contributing at any point, that's a win. Shit, that's the case for a 2nd rounder.

Hardman was BETTER than your average 2nd rounder. Robinson was about what one should expect from a 4th rounder - if that. Conley was maybe a little disappointing because he had such an obvious path to relevance that never seized, but as a 3rd round pick he was still fine.

You just have to have reasonable expectations of the player.

Chiefs were 1st in offense yards gained and scoring offense.

Folks are nuts if they think any player getting significant snaps is a disappointment.

You only have so many plays to run in a season and if the Chiefs are number 1 offense and their 3 losses biggest plays involve untimely mistakes by HOFers Mahomes, Kelce and Chris Jones, how can you say a player that made the plays they were tasked to make is a disappointment.

They have spent a 1 on one twice in the 21st century. Are we really surprised by the results?

E: whoops forgot Syl Morris. 3!

Not surprised at all.

They also have been drafting nothing but undersized niche receivers in the second round the past few years

Rice seems like a departure from that trend.

All of this ^

And Conley went on to play several more years for Jax, he's no bust nor was Hardman

It’s nuts.

People act like the Chiefs are the mid-aughts Detroit Lions, burning top 5 pick after top T 5 pick at WR.

A 2nd - who was a good player and contributed significantly to two SB runs. Not as good as a few guys drafted after him, but not a bust.

A 2nd one year into his career and behind 4 veterans in year 1.

And a 2nd who hasn’t taken a snap yet.

That’s super light investment (driven because they had elite weapons at TE and WR already).

This guy loves to high point the ball. With a 41" vertical, I can see why. Dude has some Moss in his game. I'm looking forward to seeing how he developed as a route runner. Sounds like he already has some chemistry with Pat.

I see his play style as more Dez Bryant than moss

fyp

So, if Rice plays well, gatekeepers can say, See, I told you he was good.

And if Rice plays poorly, the gatekeepers can just say I expected too much, a second round receiver was never going to contribute his rookie year.

It's a nice little catch-22 they set up to make sure they can't be wrong.

Yes, I like that comparison. :thumb:

I quite like the pick, perfectly happy with it, and I'm not sure I'd use the term "gatekeepers" as people can say what they think here, they might just get hammered if people disagree.

But I think there's a germ of truth to the point that there's no real recognition of those calling bad picks getting it right. Some of it's fair enough i.e. they might need more time. But some of it is just pretending people are making claims they're not i.e. they are expert evaluators. We can always argue the toss about what "value" a player has or what "impact" should be expected from a R1, R2 pick etc, but sometimes a guy is a bum and a reach and people called it and got it right, even if they called it for the wrong reasons/analysis.

None of this imo relates to Rice, to be clear!

Bacon comes in rasheers, KC has a new love Chefs

You're so FOS. Jesus man, are you taking up the mantle for Chiefy?

I think Rashee Rice is going to be great. The REAL question for me is whether or not this draft pick has to do with Skyy Moore.

Yeah it's an odd time in Chiefs history to become hypercritical of the GM's draft picks. Maybe he's John Dorsey's CP burner account.

I was thinking Moore would take a lot of the JJSS snaps, but Rice now looks a more obvious fit. How are you thinking it shakes out?

He’s wearing number 4.

Kind of a badass WR number.

Lol no. Rice is your x. Moore is your y.

He’s our lone rookie chosen for the rookie photoshoots

that is the problem . ANY criticism of a pick is "hypercritical" for the Brett Veach Ball Washing Association. five drafts, five free agencies, five trade deadlines and he still hasn't brought in a topflight offensive skill position player. but he did inherit 3 0r 4.

This is the kind of stupidity that we have to deal with in the golden age of Chiefs football.

I swear some of you are the most whiny impatient miserable ****s.

You realize that they only invite offensive skill players and QBs, right?

It’s a real argument IMO. Even the best GM’s aren’t perfect. Veach has had two 2nd rd WR’s and thus far have not found a true hit.

I’d argue Mecole was a need pick that happened bc the Tyreek situation unfolded in real time so I can’t give them too much flak for that. Skyy is TBD but his rookie year was filled with struggles.

I think it stems from the fact that Andy is an all time great coach and we found Kelce, Tyreek and Hunt previously, so why haven’t we been able to since? It’s an interesting discussion, and I’d argue that Pacheco is just as good as Kareem was.

Fortunately Burt has found very talented contributors like McKinnon and Toney for cheap, but the argument for us not hitting on an above average weapon in the draft at WR is absolutely legit at this time

I seem to remember a late round RB who was a real contributer late last season who has the making for being a stud this season.

But WRs are generally slow to develop in AR's offense and so far the last few drafts don't have a great deal to show compared to the general success at other positions.

Is it just the luck of small sample size or a deeper problem or is Skyy and Rice about to prove all that wrong.

:shrug:

Nope, it's ****ing dumb.

I'll just repost this shit:

And if you want to expand this narrative to offensive weapons, it's even more reeruned considering he found a badass starting RB in the 7th round that just played a huge ****ing role in us winning a SB.

Maybe give Skyy more than a rookie season when he's burried on the depth chart? Maybe give Toney more than half a season? Maybe wait to see what Rice does?

We have 3 young talented WRs and people don't even have the patience to see how they develop.

Funny how you bring up no GM is perfect. Everybody is sucking Howie Roseman's dick (rightfull so), but let's not forget that this was also the narrative with him after the Eagles COMPLETELY whiffed on Reagor and Arcega-Whiteside. I mean, Hardman is a grand ****ing slam compared to those guys.

Yeah you’re being a homer.

Commenting on the fact that two 2nd rd picks at WR haven’t worked out thus far doesn’t equal saying Veach sucks. It’s just the truth.

And in both cases, WR’s we passed on (DK Metcalf/George Pickens) have both worked out quite nicely.

We haven’t hit on a WR with two 2nd rd investments at this time. that’s just an undeniable fact. And no chicken littles shouldn’t take that as “omg Veach sucks!!!l”.

Like I said. Every GM has at least one position they struggle with. For Veach it’s been finding an above average WR in the draft. And really I hope that changes with Skyy and/or Rice

One of those ****ing guys is literally one season into his career.

So this entire narrative is really built around one ****ing guy. One. That's not a ****ing pattern.

Again, ****ing stupid, and you pull this homer shit with me evey ****ing time like it's an argument. This has nothing to do with being a homer, and everything to do with a dumb narrative that is easily taken down with any sort of critical thinking and logic.

And yea, if Toney/Skyy/Rice all end up being disappointments, then have at it fellas. Then you will actually have something to bitch about.

My only point is that up until the last 2 years, the issue has been a lack of investment, not an inability to find WRs.

We finally invested in the position now, and people don't even have the patience to let things play out first.

Imagine if Toney/Skyy and Rice flopped but Justyn Ross and Ritchie James ended up Pro Bowlers. That'd be a fun time on here arguing the toss on whether Veach was a genius or a fool :)

LMAO

Again, let's stop with the DK Metcalf comparison. There is no way we were ever going to draft him, EVER... Mecole was a break the glass emergency pick due to the Tyreek issue at the time. They were drafting a replacement for a likely Tyreek Hill suspension that didn't materialized. If it weren't for the Tyreek situation, we wouldn't have beeen looking at a WR in round 2 either...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">First time in a Chiefs helmet 🥰 <a href="https://twitter.com/RiceRashee11?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@RiceRashee11</a> <a href="https://t.co/2eTdZBhPNP">pic.twitter.com/2eTdZBhPNP</a></p>&mdash; Kansas City Chiefs (@Chiefs) <a href="https://twitter.com/Chiefs/status/1654601618279505923?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 5, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2023...fitting-video/

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> Rashee Rice.. catching passes. <a href="https://t.co/EpopsQnbz3">pic.twitter.com/EpopsQnbz3</a></p>&mdash; PJ Green (@PJGreenTV) <a href="https://twitter.com/PJGreenTV/status/1654920864087916545?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 6, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> Rashee Rice catching punts to start rookie camp. <a href="https://t.co/N3W0HsQni1">pic.twitter.com/N3W0HsQni1</a></p>&mdash; PJ Green (@PJGreenTV) <a href="https://twitter.com/PJGreenTV/status/1654914869076828160?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 6, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Outstanding interview tonight on <a href="https://twitter.com/ArrowheadAllies?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ArrowheadAllies</a> with <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SMU?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#SMU</a> WR coach <a href="https://twitter.com/CoachRobLikens?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@CoachRobLikens</a> who revealed new <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WR?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WR</a> played 9 games last year on a fractured toe. Tremendous insight here. Watch interview in it&#39;s entirety: <a href="https://t.co/raNTzm4Ujm">https://t.co/raNTzm4Ujm</a> <a href="https://t.co/8cmAKuDzJn">pic.twitter.com/8cmAKuDzJn</a></p>&mdash; Starcade Media (@StarcadeMediaKC) <a href="https://twitter.com/StarcadeMediaKC/status/1653575027126861824?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 3, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I honestly think that Gray and Watson will be taking some of those JuJu touches, along with Rice. We're deeper than folks realize, IMO.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">First reps in red‼️ <a href="https://twitter.com/RiceRashee11?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@RiceRashee11</a> <a href="https://t.co/ROETpsDQ00">pic.twitter.com/ROETpsDQ00</a></p>&mdash; Kansas City Chiefs (@Chiefs) <a href="https://twitter.com/Chiefs/status/1654989522214461443?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 6, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Am I wrong to get Reggie Wayne with better hops vibes here?

R&R ....Rice and Ross time

Is 4 going to be his official number? I like it

Yea, it's his HS #

And some were worried about his ability to get separation...He's WFO!!!

The worries about getting separation all were from before we knew he was playing on a fractured toe.

I think we may have gotten a steal but you shouldn't take victory laps about the reactions after the draft, everyone was going off the information at the time.



If we got a first round steal at 55 this pick is going to be legendary. I love this kid's attitude

Incidentally, his numbers before the injury which happened DURING the Maryland game are uh


https://i.imgur.com/l01c44S.png




i think we got a steal

I'm tempering my expectations, especially the 1st year. But if he pans out and becomes a top WR it'll go a long way to putting to bed any criticisms of Veach's WR drafting. Rice was a guy that was all over the shop on people's evals it seems, and lots admitted he is/was a hard evaluation.

Did people listen to this?


https://omny.fm/shows/the-zone/sam-m...s-draft-5-5-23


9:27. PFF is on and saying that it's basically mathematically impossible that Rice ran a 4.51 40 and he thinks there was something screwy with the laser timing. It would make sense why Hyatt's was slow too, and Tank Dell.


edit: also Jordan Addison

My eyes see speed


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">SMU WR Rashee Rice was getting open all day long.<br><br>QB Tyson Bagent missed him here… <a href="https://t.co/f6cvIhGPp0">pic.twitter.com/f6cvIhGPp0</a></p>&mdash; Giants.future (@future_giants) <a href="https://twitter.com/future_giants/status/1620549356968415234?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 31, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Look at this.


Tell me that 40 score doesn't just stick out like a sore thumb


https://i.imgur.com/X9YxtD1.png

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Over the last 4 classes of WRs charted (123) here are the leaders in Missed Tackles Forced:<br><br>Dazz Newsome-59<br>Rashee Rice-52<br>Jaelon Darden-50<br>Jalen Cropper-50<br>Drake London-49<br>David Bell-48<br>Demario Douglas-47<br>Rondale Moore-47<br>Laviska Shenault-45<br>Skyy Moore-45<br>Quentin Johnston-45 <a href="https://t.co/LKF0C1X28E">pic.twitter.com/LKF0C1X28E</a></p>&mdash; Jeremy (@PopesFFH) <a href="https://twitter.com/PopesFFH/status/1655385497668136961?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 8, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I really like Rice, think he's gonna be a real nice fit here.

But looking at the names on that list....I dunno if that really tells us much.

Durability, good hands, YAC machine.

Oh and his 10 and 20 yard times are right there with Toney. He’s not a great vertical threat like an MVS but we don’t need him to be that.

He can play the Juju role with success the way we had Juju do it last year. Only a matter of if he can get the playbook down

The point with the 10 and 20 times not lining up with the 40 time is that the 40 time is fiction.

If it's true he ran a 4.4 for coaches I will never complain about his speed again, he's plenty fast.


Also his 10 time is faster than Toney so he will be juuuuust fine getting open off the line.

Word that he was practicing double moves at the request of the Chiefs since he wasn't asked to do it in college and he must have shown promise in that as well.

I apologize to everyone for ever doubting this pick. It's like Pickens without the drama and he could have been a first rounder. No wonder Veach traded up to make sure he got his guy.

Where'd you hear this?

What stands out is that this 'athletic score' says Rice is a more athletic player because he's taller and heavier.

RAS is reeruned.

The only thing I like about RAS is that it puts a lot of statistical information in front of you in one box.

But the score itself doesn't seem to tell us anything useful.


For example, if we take two players, X and Y, and player X has a score of 9.0 and player Y has a score of 9.5, what exactly does that tell me about either player or why player Y is 0.5 points better?

It is convenient though just in terms of putting all those stats on one page. And of course, all the pretty colors.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Built 4️⃣ this. <a href="https://t.co/6Tn4RPiYhS">pic.twitter.com/6Tn4RPiYhS</a></p>&mdash; Kansas City Chiefs (@Chiefs) <a href="https://twitter.com/Chiefs/status/1655626841611284494?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 8, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That video shows the thing that's just great for him - his body control.

Notice how he turns completely around and heads to the outside, all without really slowing down at all. The end result is beating his man to the corner and a bunch of extra YAC.

He's going to be a lot like Juju only younger and faster.

Considering we traded up to get him, he better be quite a bit better than JuJu ever was. And I believe he can do so. But he's not yet a complete WR, so we'll see how long it takes to get there.

Kelce shit....

Planting that left foot to start his cut and YAC as he's catching the football.

The guys that are great YAC getters don't do it by accident - they do little stuff like that. They do those things you only notice when you get beat over the head with it (see: Years of wondering how guy like Kelce is constantly finding yardage after the catch) or specifically look for it.

Rice's YAC totals aren't an accident. He's just good at that sort of thing.

We gave up a 4th and a mid-2nd.

I think he'll outperform JJSS, yes. But you're essentially saying that he'd better be a 1,200 yard receiver because we traded a pick outside of the top 100 to take him.

Huh?

How bout my boy Oladokun getting that ball out.

I think Rice ends up as a good number 2 WR, he reminds me quite a bit of Michael Gallup.