If trying to build.or maintain muscle mass fasting is a waste of time. Your muscles need a near constant supply of protein to grow.

Cold therapy reduces muscle growth as well. You need blood flow and inflammation to grow muscle.

Cold tub is a great mental boost for many. Just wait 24 hours after lifting if also trying to grow.

Just imagine how much better they would work if you wrapped them correctly.

Lift heavy shit and eat protein. The 2 main keys to longevity.

Pretty hard to **** up

https://doctorarthritis.org/products...3ZfimrO5vcKuIE

Finding an activity that you like that you can do a few times a week is way better for you physically and mentally than doing that other shit. And it's easier to sustain.

Unfortunately it is. The images on that site don't have them wrapped correctly.

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I am just about to turn over 2000 miles on my Sole F63 treadmill and it has truly changed my life.

After each morning session I feel terrific and wish I had started doing it earlier in my life.

For me at 74 Cardio is the key. My Doctor has told me "whatever you are doing, keep it up!"

Wrist straps throwing shade...

The main reason resistance training is highly recommended is you can start losing muscle mass as young as 40 in small quantities and that percentage of mass lost generally increases as you get into your 50s and 60s and beyond.

Of course, that's at 10k feet and there are reasons why it may or may not matter as much person to person.

I didn't have much to begin with at 40, so I'm gaining while the gaining is decent and then I'm sure will basically be trying to maintain in another decade.

That's an excellent point and very true.

After my first 4 heart stints 17 years ago I hired a personal trainer for 6 months and developed a routine I still follow to a certain degree today.
I do upper body one day with 12 lb weights after my cardio and then legs the next day.
At my age though I have learned I don't recover as fast I used to so taking the third day off has proven beneficial.

I'm 100% for cardio as well. I both lift and run.

But from most of what I have been reading up on the last several years and some podcast on fitness I like to listen to like Andrew Huberman (who has a ton of great guests on his show), maintaining muscle mass is the most important thing you can do to extend your life.

Combine it with cardio and you will get even more benefit. I think VO2 max might even have been the next key ingredient to longevity.

I’d be surprised if this specifically was the key.

Women live much longer than men on average and they have a lot less muscle mass than we do. I know there are other variables that play a role in life expectancy but still..

The reason for lifting is not to extend lifespan. It's to maintain health and mobility.

They are not the same.

Same.

Sports are the best cardio. Change my mind.

He has a ton of good info, but I think one recently was 3 hours long. :eek:

I set them to 1.25 or 1.5 speed and skip through them a bit, but the chapters are usually detailed enough to find the main topics of interest.

No doubt about it. Something you enjoy doing is far superior to cardio for cardio’s sake.

After 10 minutes of jogging, elliptical, etc. I'm bored out of my mind but I could play basketball or football for hours.

Form isn't the issue I work at a desk

Well this may not be true. The reason why is some studies show mobility is the key to life span.

As you age past 65 years old when you become immobile your life span drops exponentially.

I believe the number I read was after the age of 60 it takes 6 weeks to recover from 1 week of immobility. And the number keeps climbing the older you get. So you could spend years staying in shape, fall break a hip and lose mobility for 8 weeks say, and it would take 48 weeks to get back to where you were. Who is going to do that?

I think its something like 70% of people who fall and break a hip after the age of 65 die within the next year, and its not from the fall or the hip. They cant move and exercise for an extended period of time and both their mind and body tank. This is according to Peter Attia in his book Outlive.

One of the biggest thing he would focus on with older patients to live a long and mobile (productive) life into their late years was mobility, balance, and muscle mass so you could handle a fall or event.

Maybe the difference we are discussing is lifespan vs quality lifespan as well though he claims once you become immobile you don't live long typically.

He tends to get really detailed into the technical stuff that can be hard to follow at times as well. Peter Attia is even worse about that but if you listen a few times to stuff that's confusing it can start to click.

Make it a competition. Try to beat PR times etc

I've always said the best workout for you is one that you will enjoy and therefore keep doing. Whatever that is.

And if you exercise long enough what you prefer to do will probably change over time.

Nothing wrong with that.

Studies also show muscle mass is a pretty significant predictor of mortality across all reasons...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4035379/

It might not be THE key reason, but you could probably take out the riskiest habits that contribute to a shorter lifespan (and the main reasons women live a whole 5 years longer than men), like alcoholism, chronic smoking, drug use... and if you haven't abused such things for decades of your life (and that probably goes for food/obesity, too) and have bigger shit to deal with, muscle mass and related issues are probably up there on the list of being pretty damn important.

Yea I was going to respond to the earlier post about women outliving men has more to do with men doing things that shorten their lives at a much higher frequency than women.

And on top of that, there are more male deaths than female deaths across all age groups, including infant deaths.... so, even though that does include men who have reached 65 on average dying before women who have reached 65, overall the difference isn't all that relevant when talking about how muscle mass helps with longevity.

This.

Modern medicine can keep you around much longer than your body really wants.

This does not mean you have a healthy body. Only thing that's going to keep your bodies health around longer to get closer to that lifespan is to strength train.

I hurt my back (pulled muscle) pretty bad the first week of July. I couldn't do much of anything for a good 4-6 weeks. Finally about two weeks ago I got back in the gym for weight lifting and I walk everyday for about an hour. Feeling better already.

On a side note, I am trying the 7 day cold shower challenge and it isnt as hard as I thought but I do not exactly look forward to it either. I get up out of bed, feed the dog, walk to bathroom and brush my teeth and start the shower and walk right in. First few seconds kinda brutal and I'm not breathing lol. Takes about 90 seconds to wash and rinse hair and body but right about the 2 minute mark, it gets easy and youre used to it. I stay in for about 4-5 minutes. Huge difference in flat out being wide awake and ready to take on the day. I get dressed and roll straight to the gym.

Ive also eliminated carbs and beer/soda and began intermittent fasting. My eating window was 10:00am to 6:00pm but now I'm not even hungry before noon so that window is getting smaller and I'm feeling great. Sort of following the keto plan per Dr. Bergs website.

All intermittent fasting does is starve your muscles of nutrients and slowing growth.

If you're trying to build muscle and strength you need to eat in excess and often.

There may be some benefits to fasting, but I really think of IF as a trick to eat less by reducing the number of hours a day you eat.


It’s for weight loss not muscle gain. And like most weight loss strategies, it works for some and doesn’t for others.

Absolutely true. If you are 70 and have a hard time with mobility, and then then you have an illness that puts you in the hospital for 10 days? You will take months to regain your prior muscle, and it might never happen.

Squatting is basically standing up, and if you can’t do that, it’s really hard to be independent.

Any running people able to give me a recommendation of a place that can properly fit me for running shoes or coach me to improve my gait or stride? I am training for a 5k and around 2.3 mile mark or so my biggest toes in my right foot start to get numb. It doesn't really happen in my left foot. I try to even focus pushing off more on my left foot when I get tired because I notice my shin splints and soreness are worse in my right lower leg.

I just have Hokas I bought off the rack at Dicks. Maybe better fitting shoes or some custom insert would help. I could barely complete my third attempt at running 3.1 miles today in under 30 min. Its my worst time even though its the 3rd time Ive ran it. The first time I ran it I was my fastest at 28:15 and the lowest. The main reason is my body doesn't hold up. I am so awful at running lol

Every one should train squat (getting up out of a chair), Deadlift (picking something up from the floor) and Farmer Carry (carrying uneven loads such as bags of groceries).

By far the most important compound movements.

Been out of the running game awhile; never even heard of Hokas. If they’re just some generic tennis shoe, chuck them and get a real pair of runners.

You should always replace the stock insoles with something designed for your foot and the type of running you’re going to do. I used to use Greenfeet, don’t know if they’re still considered a good insole, or if there’s significantly better at the same price range. But get some.

It sounds like you’re landing too hard, maybe overpronating/bouncing too much, causing that pain in your shins and toe; but without seeing your stride I’m flat guessing.

If you have a HS nearby with X-C or track team, try to talk with the coach. Maybe he/she could look at your stride.

Hokas are probably the most popular running shoe these days, they certainly aren't generic they are on the pricey side.


BWillie go to a local running shoe store they can likely check your feet and recommend what you need, most of them have some tools they can use to fit you with proper shoes and a treadmill they can check your running form on.

Between whatever sets I'm doing with weights, I do 10 or so just bodyweight chair squats. That adds up over a 20-45 minute workout

I would argue that many MDs would agree occasional fasting is a great tool for autophagy

Can anyone explain to me wtf is the point of a hoist machine?

Hoist is a brand. Not sure what machine you are referring to. Any pictures?

I love HOKAs. Aesthetic and extremely comfortable. But that's me, to each their own.. running shoes to me are always trial and error.

New Balance has some good ones as well.

I have a pair of Hokas hiking shoes and they're amazing... I trust the grip on those more than any other pair I've owned, and they're really comfortable.

Engines are really heavy so it helps you pick up things that weigh a lot? Wtf?

Figured this out. It wasn't my biceps. It was my left triceps that is bigger than my right. Was looking at my arms in the mirror the other night and saw that I have nearly a full horseshoe in my left triceps, but only about half of one in my right one. Problem solved, lol. (yes, I was flexing)


Weird though, because I do exactly the same number of reps on both sides every time. Now I guess I have to remember to do extra reps on the right for awhile.

I'll try to find some my gym has several one is lat pull down, there's also a triceps one, and a chest press one

Go to a running store. They'll measure your feet and give you recommendations.

Seems like you already know the point of those machines then

And pushups. Good to be able to get up, lol

It's genetic. Most likely you will never have them be symmetrical.

Yes I went to the Running Spot and I spent a pretty penny, like $280. Apparently I have severely arched feet. I HAD running shoes already but now I have a Brooks pair that is more contoured to my feet and have insoles that help with arch support and the difference is night and day! I have never been able to run over 2 miles without stopping before and the first time I tried them I ran 3.5 miles. It turns out it wasn't my heart or lungs after all. It was just my feet and legs were ****ing me over. They thought that was what was probably causing me shin splints when I first started a few months ago and now moved to more my achilles & numbing of toes. If I keep at this running thing I could even get custom orthopedics for like $480 lol and it would be even better but I'm sure law of diminishing returns.

I am ready to fly now!

Based on my reading on some running forums it appears in general for distance running high arches without the right support can give you achillies issues and shin splints and flat feet can be more knee problems. My knees are great so that tracks.

I have slightly asymmetrical abs. Really pisses me off that you can’t do anything about your insertions.

I’ve also never had the Adonis belt and I think that would look pretty rad on me.

FYI, shoes are what causes the issues you are seeing.

Not really -Queen- I'm not sure the point of the seat lifting up when I'm pulling down on the lat pull

Ahhh, those machines.... They are trash. Use the static machines or hammer strength if your gym has them.

I do the hammer ones for incline press and love it

Can someone explain why Zone 2 training works like I am a toddler? Ive only ran once with my Garmin Golf watch which will tell me my heart beat and apparently I'm always running in zone 4 and even zone 5. My heartbeat is routinely 170 to 185 especially by the end of my run. I thought this was a good thing. But My friend who ran cross country and long distance track at our college said this is bad to do often and to run at zone 2 for a long time and for the great majority of your training. Apparently that is like fast walking speed for me. Even my "easy runs" are upper zone 3/lower zone 4.

You need to slow down and build your speed up as your heart starts performing more efficiently.

Are you well hydrated? If you are on TRT or self supplementing you should get your hematocrit checked.

That was on my past blood work. It was always within range. No no supplements except some mushroom stuff. Definitely not on TRT. Did my first zone 2 run today and it was so boring. Im too competitive. It doesn't feel like I'm doing anything. But the science says thats how I will improve for a race so Ill keep trying.

I never drink when I run because I never run longer than a half hour previously. Today I ran 5 miles in an hour slow as ****. Didnt even feel like I needed water when I was done. Felt like such a schlub.

You should never base needing to drink on feeling thirsty. Best way to get an idea of how much you need to consume is to weigh yourself before exercising and then after. Unless you ate a shitload during your workout or took a massive shit then the weight loss is water.

8oz of water is just over one pound. So if you are down two pounds you need to consume 16oz to get back to pre-excercise hydration.

There's a podcast I sometimes listen to with Vinnie Tortorich called Fitness Confidential. He had an episode on this just last week called "Slowing Down to Be Faster with Phil Maffetone". If you want more in depth explanation, go listen to that episode.

I'm kind of in your same boat. I didn't really have a Zone 2. A walk would be Zone 1 and once I ran, I would instantly jump to 170ish bpm in Zone 5. I'd basically run a mile, walk a minute and repeat for the 3-7 miles I was running and could maintain this just fine.

I've gotten slower and less frequent running since surgery on my knee for a meniscus tear. As a result, my heart rate isn't peaking nearly as much averaging more in the 150s. I've tried the Zone 2 training a few times but never committed enough to see results. I understand the benefits, but it's frustrating to move so slow to build up the endurance you'll eventually see.

That’s what people did for like a billion years before modern sports science lol

It's like waiting for the low oil light to come on in your car before checking your oil.

Ive been slackin' like a mofo this past month. Ive lost some momentum. Been to the gym like 3 times in the last 3 weeks and havent really been playing any sports either. I can see it in the mirror.

I'm always in either Zone 1 or Zone 5. There's no in between.

I know. It’s just a funny thing to read with no context.

I've been doing pretty well lately. I've lost 29 lbs so far this year, and my VO2 max got up to 36 today for the first time in a long time. I know that's not a great number for athletic people, but it's great for me. I ran a 5k last Sunday and came in second in my age class (31:41), which I was very happy about. I'm going to start working my distances back up to start running half marathons again.

Stretching update: I've kept at it. Still following very basic beginner stretching routines off youtube and things focused on unlocking your hamstrings. Pretty much try to get in 10 minutes of stretching a day. I'm seeing improvements in my flexibility. Nothing super impressive, but if I keep it up, I think I'll be able to reach my toes in a couple more weeks.

More importantly, I've noticed great improvement with less pain in my body. I'd wake up every morning with back pain, especially if I slept on my stomach at some point in the night. It's been present for 20 years. It would ease up as I got up and moving so I just assumed it was part of getting older. However, I've noticed in the last week I've started sleeping much better through the night, and when I wake up in the morning there is no pain. I find myself poking at the spot on my lower spine where the pain use to be wondering if the lack of pain there is some temporary fluke or something that could last. Seems like stretching is helping here as it's the only thing that has changed.

Running wise, I went out yesterday for a 3 mile run. First time I've had zero knee pain in 2 years. Hoping it keeps up and I can get back into the 5-7 mile range a few times a week. We'll see how it continues.

Its more complicated than people think, while improving cardio without beating up the rest of your body because you aren't running hard, the Mitochondrial Density benefit is the biggest thing. Your ability to get oxygen into your muscles for energy is key.

Here is a quick break down on it.

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/t...-mitochondria/


Every training plan I have I done for a marathon about 75% of the running was in zone 2 and the rest was tempo runs. The Zone 2 gets boring but it works and it doesn't tear up your body as much as running hard.

LMAO

It's the same concept as strength training (not body building.) You don't max out and often you never train at maximum levels in order to not burn out your CNS.

Over stressing will eventually lead to slower or even degrading gains and more susceptible to injury.

When I was into body building and strength training (2002 to 2011) I read everything I could get my hands on because I really struggled to gain weight. Much literature focused on higher reps, lower weight which never worked for me but worked well for my mesomorphic and endomorphic friends. My weight gains really just mimicked my strength PRs at least at a 4 or 5 max rep. The 12+ rep stuff, and/or high volume training didnt work. Same with splitting arms day then leg day didnt really work for me. Eventually I figured out if I just focused on heavy bench, heavy squat, heavy deadlift and then some more ancillary stuff on "rest" days my body responded much better.

For running, I am apparently a big pussy because training "heavy" for running and high heart rate stuff just wasn't working. It's a miracle I didn't have a cardiac event the last 3 months since my triglycerides and good cholesterol are trash.

Fun fact for you, the body type endomorph mesomorph etc thing is a complete myth.

You probably struggled to gain weight because you weren't eating enough.

That's not entirely accurate, well shit its actually not accurate at all. Where the hell did you come up with that idea?

feel free to google it if you are interested

I think you may be taking the concept that most people are a mix of both body types a bit too far.

There are for certain people who are strictly endomorph or mesomporh body type. That's not a myth at all.

My son is 6'3" and about 145lbs and is 100% mesomorph. He couldn't bulk up without the aid of steroids no matter how much food he were to eat and even that would only get him so far.

Then you have the large big boned people which my son in law is for example, and he is absolutely endomorph.

No myths involved.

That would be ectomorph

What are you using to track your VO2 Max?

And what the **** even is it exactly. My fitbit gives me my VO2 Max score and it seems kinda unbelievably high, so im not sure how accurate it is or what it truly means.

Thats what people that gain weight easily like to say (muscle or fat). Of course I wasn't eating enough. Its really just cals in and cals expended out. Back then (in my 20s) I was consuming three weight gainer shakes a day and eating 5 or 6 meals a day. 4k to 5.5k calories a day. There really just wasn't enough time in the day unless I wanted to eat complete garbage like donuts and gug soda. Nowadays Im sure I would not have as difficult of a time gaining weight it just would be way more ratio or fat instead of muscle.

Early senior year HS I was 5'11" 125 lbs. End of freshman year 160 lbs. End of junior year 185 lbs. When I was 23 I really really pushed it for spring break and got up to 192. Strongest I had ever been but it took soo much work. So much. Then I quit lifting for a decade and went to 180 lbs to 185 lbs or so but muscle mass obv significantly reduced and gained Im sure a ton of fat in the mean time. Probably ate super bad for a decade because I didnt realize my body type and bone structure is not supposed to be 192 lbs. I should probably weigh like 155 or 160.

Damn that's a lot! What were your goals consuming that much? Were you trying to compete or become as big as you possibly could? Fast metabolism?

Just curious because that's like insane to me. I go for the Greg Plitt/Zyzz look.

Im currently about 5lbs heavier than my HS weight.....at 39 years old. That's not a brag. It sucks.

Now granted, my body looks very different, despite the minor weight difference. And i was wearing a small size shirt in HS, and now i wear a large. When i see old pictures of 19 year old me, i'm a thicker person these days.

But the point being, ive struggled to gain weight my entire life.

And yeah, i know that i could do a better job with consistently eating more. But the fact that ive only gained 5lbs in 20 years.....and im talking 20 years of eating high calorie CRAP food...you'd think i'd have gained more weight by now.

Ive gained more mass, just not more weight.

To bang chicks and psychological. When I was a kid everyone always made fun of me for how skinny I was. I just wanted to show them you know. But it was unhealthy imo and my body is not designed to weigh that much.

Never wanted to compete, really just be as big as I could. My genes are nowhere near good enough. I legit did no cardio but I still looked good due to just how I was gaining weight.

I just use my Garmin watch. What's your Fitbit telling you?

I don't know exactly how it calculates, but apparently it's based on your pace and heart rate. Mine has gone up as I've lost weight, but my watch doesn't know my weight. However, my pace and probably heart rate have improved as I've lost weight, so that's not a huge mystery.

Whether it's accurate or not, it'll still be good for showing fitness trends. But if you're not making big changes, it mostly stays constant in my experience.

I've also wondered if there's an elevation effect. Being in Denver, I'm going to be taking in a bit less oxygen with each breath, which is going to impact my pace and heart rate. But I've run races at sea level and my VO2 Max didn't spike up in those races, which befuddles me. It seems like I should see an impact. We all run faster at sea level than in Denver.

I must accelerate quickly.